Gordon, Grant. “John Newton Encounters John Wesley: The Untold Story.” Paper presented at the Wesley Ministry Conference and Symposium, Tyndale University College & Seminary, Toronto, Ontario, April 25, 2017. (MPEG-3 audio, 32:50 min.) 1 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:04.020 So the third page is an infomercial. 2 00:00:04.050 --> 00:00:05.780 It's. 3 00:00:05.810 --> 00:00:09.600 My specialty is John Newton. 4 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:14.660 And so most of my books are related to him like that. 5 00:00:14.690 --> 00:00:17.860 So the first one is wise counsel. 6 00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:21.100 These are 83 letters that he wrote to one person. 7 00:00:21.130 --> 00:00:23.460 Most of those were never published before. 8 00:00:23.490 --> 00:00:28.260 I'm getting good reviews on that, that somebody wrote me just last week and said, 9 00:00:28.290 --> 00:00:30.620 he's reading him is like having my own mentor. 10 00:00:30.650 --> 00:00:31.900 So that's what it is. 11 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.900 And the second book is a great blessing to me. 12 00:00:35.930 --> 00:00:40.620 It's somewhat related to what I'm going to be presenting here today because John 13 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:45.160 Newton grew up sort of independent of any kind of 14 00:00:45.180 --> 00:00:49.320 denominational connections, theological connections. 15 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:55.140 He attended the Anglican Church, but he wasn't aware of what was going on 16 00:00:55.170 --> 00:00:58.460 in the Great Awakening Evangelical Revival. 17 00:00:58.490 --> 00:01:04.400 He was unaware of all those little nuances of ideas. 18 00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:13.900 They always talk about disclaimers or not a disclaimer, but anyway, you have to give 19 00:01:13.930 --> 00:01:18.130 full knowledge of who you are before you so you're, you know, oh, he's biased. 20 00:01:18.160 --> 00:01:19.660 No wonder he liked that person. 21 00:01:19.690 --> 00:01:20.770 Right. 22 00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:27.700 You're, of course, aware that methodism in its earlier days was fairly united. 23 00:01:27.730 --> 00:01:32.490 Came out of Oxford with the Methodist, that movement. 24 00:01:32.520 --> 00:01:36.660 But then it did divide, and it divided. 25 00:01:36.690 --> 00:01:43.380 You had the Armenian, the Wesleyan side, john and Charles others on that side. 26 00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:44.570 That's your side. 27 00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:46.260 And then on the other side, the other 28 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:52.560 branch was George Whitfield, lady Huntington and Howell Harris. 29 00:01:52.590 --> 00:01:56.340 Howell Harris was the great Welsh evangelist. 30 00:01:56.370 --> 00:02:01.700 So it divided, and it divided before Newton 31 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:04.980 was even exposed to any of those kinds of things. 32 00:02:05.010 --> 00:02:11.500 And so if we want full disclosure, I'm on the Whitfield side. 33 00:02:11.530 --> 00:02:17.020 But I do want to say that my great grandfather was a Free 34 00:02:17.050 --> 00:02:21.170 Methodist licensed preacher in the Kingston area 100 years ago. 35 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:23.300 And I looked for an hour trying to find 36 00:02:23.330 --> 00:02:27.500 the certificate that I have of where it's signed, where he is an official person. 37 00:02:27.530 --> 00:02:32.600 So I thought I'd bring that in case you tried to throw me out. 38 00:02:34.600 --> 00:02:37.220 Okay, here we go. Does it work? 39 00:02:37.250 --> 00:02:38.580 No. 40 00:02:38.610 --> 00:02:40.360 Okay. 41 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:47.340 At the top, I've given you a summary of some details of Newton's life. 42 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:54.380 He was born near or in London, England, 1725, age six. 43 00:02:54.410 --> 00:02:55.980 He was an only child, age six. 44 00:02:56.010 --> 00:02:59.020 His mother died, ages eleven to 17. 45 00:02:59.050 --> 00:03:01.300 He was on the sea with his father, who was 46 00:03:01.330 --> 00:03:04.860 a captain of a merchant marine ship in the Mediterranean. 47 00:03:04.890 --> 00:03:09.610 70 to 18, he was press ganged, or as we learned this morning, he was impressed. 48 00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.740 He was chosen, fixed. 49 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:13.220 He had to change his employment. 50 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:14.660 He was forced to serve the Navy. 51 00:03:14.690 --> 00:03:19.220 That was a legal way of getting recruits on your Navy ship. 52 00:03:19.250 --> 00:03:23.100 In ages 19 to 29, he was involved in the 53 00:03:23.130 --> 00:03:27.700 slave trade, and during that time, he made four trips. 54 00:03:27.730 --> 00:03:29.920 Then he was converted. Sort of. 55 00:03:29.950 --> 00:03:32.460 The beginning of his conversion occurred 56 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:36.980 when he was 22 in a storm in the Atlantic off Newfoundland. 57 00:03:37.010 --> 00:03:40.720 On their way back, he would write later on that. 58 00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:44.460 He thought his conversion didn't really get clear until about six months later, 59 00:03:44.490 --> 00:03:49.060 but it was in a storm, and he cried out to God. 60 00:03:49.090 --> 00:03:52.700 That was this crisis moment. 61 00:03:52.730 --> 00:03:59.380 After that, he made four trips on slave ships and three as a captain. 62 00:03:59.410 --> 00:04:02.420 He was married to a girl called Mary, his 63 00:04:02.450 --> 00:04:06.100 childhood sweetheart, at least teenage, anyway. 64 00:04:06.130 --> 00:04:07.460 He called her Pauly. 65 00:04:07.490 --> 00:04:09.260 That was a nickname for her. 66 00:04:09.290 --> 00:04:11.860 Age 29, he had epileptic seizure. 67 00:04:11.890 --> 00:04:13.460 He had to quit the sea. 68 00:04:13.480 --> 00:04:16.140 So he didn't quit the sea because he was tired of the slave trade. 69 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.380 He quit to see because of a health issue. 70 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:24.260 He was unemployed for ten months. 71 00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:31.100 And well, I'll get right into the story now as we follow along in the paper. 72 00:04:31.130 --> 00:04:36.100 Now, what I'm going to be presenting to you is most of it is brand new. 73 00:04:36.130 --> 00:04:38.940 Not that it's out of my head, but 74 00:04:38.970 --> 00:04:44.540 ten years ago providentially, I would say I found or 75 00:04:44.570 --> 00:04:49.460 located the missing middle diary of John Newton. 76 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:51.880 There were three that he wrote over his 77 00:04:51.910 --> 00:04:57.700 lifespan, and the middle one went missing about 1860. 78 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:01.300 And so I found it providentially about ten 79 00:05:01.330 --> 00:05:04.740 years ago, and I've always wanted to publish something from it. 80 00:05:04.770 --> 00:05:09.900 So I started to work on that, and when I did, I thought, well, now, he says a lot 81 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.980 about Wesley in there, but I thought to give background a look at 82 00:05:14.010 --> 00:05:18.340 the first diary, and there he talks about when he first met Whitfield. 83 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:20.180 So that's how that book emerged. 84 00:05:20.200 --> 00:05:21.900 And now I'm three quarters of the way 85 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:28.620 through working on my manuscript for the relationship of Newton, the John Wesley. 86 00:05:28.650 --> 00:05:33.300 It's largely the untold story, although some of his letters have been analyzed, 87 00:05:33.330 --> 00:05:39.580 but a lot of material was unknown because they didn't have this diary. 88 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.020 So I was privileged to find it, and I'm 89 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:47.860 excited to share it with you, and particularly as it's coming from John 90 00:05:47.890 --> 00:05:52.900 Newton, who, as I say, had adopted a Calvinistic position. 91 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.840 All right. 92 00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:57.900 During his ten months of unemployment, he 93 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.820 and his wife Paul, he moved to the London area. 94 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:02.800 By this time, the Methodist movement had 95 00:06:02.830 --> 00:06:06.500 divided into two branches, and I've already mentioned that. 96 00:06:06.530 --> 00:06:10.720 And in London, largely through his interaction with 97 00:06:10.750 --> 00:06:15.420 Calvinistic pastors and hearing the powerful preaching of Whitfield, that he 98 00:06:15.450 --> 00:06:22.600 became a committed evangelical Calvinist as opposed to a higher Calvinist. 99 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.980 Then, through his former employer, he obtained an important position in the 100 00:06:29.010 --> 00:06:34.180 customs office, customs department in the Liverpool harbor. 101 00:06:34.210 --> 00:06:40.260 So he moved back to Liverpool was the main harbor there, and there, as he had before, 102 00:06:40.290 --> 00:06:42.780 he attended the Anglican churches in the town. 103 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:48.380 Especially for the sacrament, because it was usually expected, at times required, 104 00:06:48.400 --> 00:06:52.140 that you would receive this sacrament at the Anglican or Episcopal or Church of 105 00:06:52.170 --> 00:06:55.660 England church, if you're going to work in the government. 106 00:06:55.690 --> 00:06:58.940 It was basically a requirement that way. 107 00:06:58.960 --> 00:07:02.700 But he also started to attend, for the first time, a Calvinistic Baptist church 108 00:07:02.730 --> 00:07:08.580 since he had become a Calvinist, a few weeks later, though, whitfield came to 109 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:13.100 town for the very first official time, and there he had the privilege of hearing 110 00:07:13.130 --> 00:07:18.100 Whitfield preach nine times, and that's all included there in the book. 111 00:07:18.130 --> 00:07:21.020 After Whitfield's visit, in addition to 112 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.140 attending the Anglican churches, there are three or four in the town, and the one 113 00:07:25.170 --> 00:07:30.020 Baptist churches, which was sort of a high Calvinist hypertype, he began to also 114 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:34.020 attend a second Baptist church that was recommended by Whitfield. 115 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:35.740 He thought the other one was more 116 00:07:35.770 --> 00:07:40.100 inclined, was closer to Whitfield's position. 117 00:07:40.130 --> 00:07:43.980 And then he also started to attend, for the first time, generally on a regular 118 00:07:44.010 --> 00:07:50.440 basis, the Methodist meeting house, where Whitfield had preached nine times. 119 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:55.000 Over the next four months, though, he became increasingly concerned about the 120 00:07:55.030 --> 00:07:59.740 low spiritual condition in the town and its churches. 121 00:07:59.770 --> 00:08:03.020 Therefore, he wrote to Whitfield and pled for him to return. 122 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.940 And if Whitfield could not come, he asked him to send some of his preachers. 123 00:08:07.970 --> 00:08:13.720 And if they could not come, he asked him to pass on the request to John Wesley to 124 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:18.420 send some of his preachers to strengthen the Methodist congregation that was in 125 00:08:18.450 --> 00:08:22.740 serious disruption and decline in the town. 126 00:08:22.770 --> 00:08:25.060 Even Wesley had noticed that two years 127 00:08:25.090 --> 00:08:29.600 prior on his visit to the town, where he made the comment that those in the 128 00:08:29.630 --> 00:08:36.540 Methodist meeting house were, quote, dear lovers of controversy, end of quote. 129 00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:39.180 In Newton's letter to Whitfield, he 130 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.520 expressed that he was quite pained over the quite over the poor quality of 131 00:08:43.550 --> 00:08:47.340 preachers and preaching at the meeting house. 132 00:08:47.370 --> 00:08:53.900 He lamented, they have the best house in the place, yet they will neither allow any 133 00:08:53.930 --> 00:08:59.620 but their own people to preach in it, nor will they keep it supplied themselves. 134 00:08:59.650 --> 00:09:02.680 So he asked Whitfield to pass on the 135 00:09:02.700 --> 00:09:10.020 request to Wesley, set before him that's Wesley the importance of this great town, 136 00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:17.300 and urge him to send such preachers here, if none may be omitted but of his own 137 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:23.380 sending, as have skill to divide the word of truth in a lively, affecting manner. 138 00:09:23.410 --> 00:09:28.060 And they dwell upon the great essentials of the Gospel in the first place, to 139 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.260 inform the people of the truths in which all renewed Christians agree, before they 140 00:09:33.290 --> 00:09:37.880 puzzle them with the points in which they differ. 141 00:09:38.160 --> 00:09:42.780 The following year, and we're not too sure whether Whitfield ever got passed on the 142 00:09:42.810 --> 00:09:47.340 request, but anyway, a year or so later, Wesley came to town. 143 00:09:47.370 --> 00:09:53.380 So this was the first time that Newton had the opportunity of hearing Wesley. 144 00:09:53.410 --> 00:09:55.880 He had read something of Wesley, but had 145 00:09:55.910 --> 00:10:01.700 never heard him his first time as a Calvinist to hear John Wesley. 146 00:10:01.730 --> 00:10:09.900 And during Newton's time there, wesley came on five different occasions. 147 00:10:09.930 --> 00:10:15.800 And I give the listing of the there on the sheet. 148 00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:20.140 Now, I find very interesting that 149 00:10:20.170 --> 00:10:26.540 if you look in the handout now, what's in the box, 150 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:34.220 this is extracted from this many volume set of the works of John Wesley. 151 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.140 This is the this is the most recent one. 152 00:10:36.170 --> 00:10:40.340 These are letters, but the earlier 153 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:45.700 volumes, volume 21, 22, 23, I think they have his journal. 154 00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:48.620 And so what's in the box is what you have 155 00:10:48.650 --> 00:10:52.340 in Wesley's journal, where you see the dots. 156 00:10:52.370 --> 00:10:55.820 I simply eliminated other information about that event. 157 00:10:55.850 --> 00:11:04.180 But you'll notice there that he leaves many things out. 158 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.260 Well, you didn't know they were left out until you read Newton's diary. 159 00:11:07.290 --> 00:11:13.820 So I think Newton's diary adds a wonderful way of looking at what was going on. 160 00:11:13.850 --> 00:11:16.320 At the same time, 161 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:23.620 I'm not too sure why Wesley included what he did and why he left some things out. 162 00:11:23.650 --> 00:11:26.220 He gives a curious 163 00:11:26.250 --> 00:11:32.100 interview on Thursday of the 28th about this person who beat his wife. 164 00:11:32.130 --> 00:11:34.280 I'm not too sure why he included that. 165 00:11:34.310 --> 00:11:37.460 Is he saying that that's an aberration or what? 166 00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:43.500 But it's an unusual but it is of course I'm being sarcastic here, but it's helpful 167 00:11:43.530 --> 00:11:46.900 that at least he spotted that and raised it. 168 00:11:46.930 --> 00:11:52.360 But I find it interesting that there are many things that he doesn't mention. 169 00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:59.580 He only mentions Newton once, and this is later on, during his first visit. 170 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:05.020 Wesley does not mention meeting Newton, but Newton mentions meeting him. 171 00:12:05.050 --> 00:12:08.060 On Wednesday, Wesley had dinner with John 172 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:12.420 and his wife, and on Friday, Wesley and Peter Whitfield, he's mentioned there, 173 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:16.620 he's a Hebrew scholar, spent the afternoon with him. 174 00:12:16.650 --> 00:12:20.260 And Newton commented that was a pleasant opportunity. 175 00:12:20.290 --> 00:12:22.600 In fact, Wesley stayed till seven in the 176 00:12:22.630 --> 00:12:27.220 evening and left to preach at 08:00 the next day. 177 00:12:27.250 --> 00:12:29.620 Newton says he spent an hour or two with Mr. 178 00:12:29.650 --> 00:12:30.660 Wesley. 179 00:12:30.690 --> 00:12:33.660 And these were times, even the first visit 180 00:12:33.690 --> 00:12:37.820 to the town, where there's a beginning of friendship between the two of them. 181 00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:40.180 And on the Sunday, which is not mentioned 182 00:12:40.210 --> 00:12:47.360 here in the box, wesley also went to one of the other Anglican churches in the 183 00:12:47.390 --> 00:12:50.780 town, and on that occasion Newton went with him. 184 00:12:50.810 --> 00:12:53.280 So these are little bits and pieces of 185 00:12:53.310 --> 00:12:57.720 things that he did that are not recorded in his journal. 186 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.020 Now, what I find very interesting and 187 00:13:01.050 --> 00:13:08.840 helpful is that he gives significant detail about the preaching of Wesley. 188 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.540 If you look at the handout there, you'll see that first. 189 00:13:13.560 --> 00:13:15.300 During that, I think it's eleven day 190 00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:24.500 visit, the number of times he preached, he was averaging, I think it was two a day. 191 00:13:24.530 --> 00:13:32.860 And the advantage of this is that Newton tells us on what Wesley preached, 192 00:13:32.890 --> 00:13:37.820 and these are not included in any of the published sermons. 193 00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:41.900 One might be the one on perfection, but it's quite different. 194 00:13:41.930 --> 00:13:47.180 You can imagine he's a traveling preacher and that's how it went. 195 00:13:47.210 --> 00:13:53.380 But I think it's quite fascinating that all this is included. 196 00:13:53.410 --> 00:13:56.260 And all of his preaching, at least when he 197 00:13:56.290 --> 00:13:59.900 was in Liverpool, was in the meeting house. 198 00:13:59.930 --> 00:14:01.960 When Whitfield came, he preached the 199 00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:07.380 meeting house plus out in the big park where 2000 people had gathered. 200 00:14:07.410 --> 00:14:15.860 And during the five mission trips, newton heard Wesley preach at least 58 times. 201 00:14:15.890 --> 00:14:18.500 And he took careful notes, and he gives 202 00:14:18.530 --> 00:14:24.920 the text and the content, sometimes the outline, 53. 203 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:33.660 And so during this first visit, you can see that he preached 20 times. 204 00:14:33.690 --> 00:14:38.940 Now in the handout, the dark copy. 205 00:14:38.970 --> 00:14:41.100 Sorry that it's so dark, 206 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:47.860 but this is a photocopy of three quarters of the page of Newton's diary. 207 00:14:47.890 --> 00:14:51.620 You notice that it's just packed. 208 00:14:51.650 --> 00:15:00.820 He has trying to save paper, and it just flows right on, flows together. 209 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:07.900 And just amazing that he hears this sermon and goes home and records this thing. 210 00:15:07.930 --> 00:15:09.740 It's quite phenomenal. 211 00:15:09.770 --> 00:15:15.660 He really did have power of observation and excellent memory. 212 00:15:15.690 --> 00:15:23.900 And so what you see on the and this is an extract now of that page. 213 00:15:23.930 --> 00:15:25.180 And that's the sermon. 214 00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:27.780 I've broken it up a little bit so you can 215 00:15:27.810 --> 00:15:34.520 see more clearly the divisions and how it goes. 216 00:15:37.880 --> 00:15:46.180 So I'm quite thrilled with the opportunity of sharing that in a published form. 217 00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:51.920 And you notice what he says at the bottom of that event. 218 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.460 He says he concluded with a close and 219 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:58.260 lively application both to the saints and sinners. 220 00:15:58.290 --> 00:16:02.940 And I put in italics sort of the comments, his own personal reflections. 221 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:06.020 He says, I went too much under the power 222 00:16:06.050 --> 00:16:11.660 of prejudice and was justly punished with a hard, unfeeling heart. 223 00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:16.680 He did pretty well to remember what he did, 224 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:22.220 but the discourse was very excellent and a desire thankfully and carefully to lay 225 00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:28.660 hold of every opportunity of hearing of hearing him. 226 00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:34.980 So it's really quite something that way. 227 00:16:35.010 --> 00:16:39.200 I'll just quickly mention a couple other comments. 228 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:45.600 As the times went on, they grew closer and closer. 229 00:16:46.680 --> 00:16:48.060 Now, it doesn't mean that he agreed with 230 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.980 everything Wesley was saying on the of the 14th sermon. 231 00:16:52.010 --> 00:16:56.300 This was on justification Newton wrote here. 232 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:01.020 Indeed, we differed of sermon 19. 233 00:17:01.050 --> 00:17:05.680 He said, it was, in my judgment, a good, suitable discourse, though perhaps he 234 00:17:05.690 --> 00:17:09.740 carried the notion of falling away farther than it is necessary to agree with him. 235 00:17:09.770 --> 00:17:17.770 All right, so what you're getting here is not writing down an addiction, all right? 236 00:17:17.800 --> 00:17:21.180 He's a listener who's processing it. 237 00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:23.460 So you're getting through his eyes and ears. 238 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:23.880 All right? 239 00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:31.250 It's not a dictation, but it's amazing how clearly he follows it. 240 00:17:31.280 --> 00:17:37.530 And then he will note, well, I differed over here, and he was able to distinguish 241 00:17:37.560 --> 00:17:43.240 between what he was hearing and his own impression of it at different times. 242 00:17:43.560 --> 00:17:48.700 Do you have any sense of whether he might have had some kind of a little notebook? 243 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:49.980 They don't really know. 244 00:17:50.010 --> 00:17:51.810 He did know shorthand, 245 00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:58.770 so he possibly did a little bit, but they didn't have laptops and things like this. 246 00:17:58.800 --> 00:18:01.620 Yeah, they had a little booklet that this is probably what he did. 247 00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:04.050 He he did on a couple occasions, he says, 248 00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:08.660 I I was so busy today, I couldn't really get it down till now. 249 00:18:08.690 --> 00:18:10.620 And so I'll just summarize. 250 00:18:10.650 --> 00:18:17.140 So he's is he was being very as careful as he could to remember the actual thing. 251 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:21.770 And at the end of the final sermon that week. 252 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:24.980 He says, Newton kept the best wine. 253 00:18:25.010 --> 00:18:28.090 No, Wesley kept the best wine till last. 254 00:18:28.120 --> 00:18:32.500 And as he left town, Newton declared, now 255 00:18:32.530 --> 00:18:37.530 I now a desire to bless God on his behalf that I have seen him and heard him. 256 00:18:37.560 --> 00:18:41.980 The word, the preached word, has, I hope, done me good by his ministry. 257 00:18:42.010 --> 00:18:44.400 And the remaining power of bigotry in me 258 00:18:44.430 --> 00:18:49.420 has received a blow which I would hope will keep it low hereafter. 259 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:51.420 And he had learned a powerful lesson. 260 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:55.900 And he says, I would hope that since the Lord has taken so gracious in a favorable 261 00:18:55.930 --> 00:19:00.980 way to correct my ignorance and presumption, I shall no more presume to 262 00:19:01.010 --> 00:19:06.290 censure and judge without hearing or dare confine the spirit of the Lord to those 263 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:11.770 only who tally in all things with my sentiments. 264 00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:14.900 And that was characteristic of his whole life. 265 00:19:14.930 --> 00:19:18.330 And I want to skip a bit of time for some 266 00:19:18.360 --> 00:19:22.740 questions here, so I'm going to skip a fair bit. 267 00:19:22.770 --> 00:19:29.900 There was a fascinating piece on one time they were traveling. 268 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.800 Newton was walking along with Wesley and 269 00:19:31.830 --> 00:19:35.050 two of the other itinerants to make a pastoral visit. 270 00:19:35.080 --> 00:19:40.050 And on the way, Wesley was reading letters that he had received. 271 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:42.460 Some of them talked about the current events of the day. 272 00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:45.140 And there were earthquakes and things like this. 273 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:48.700 And there's sort of signs of the times, talk and all of that. 274 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:51.900 And this is the Newton's diary. Mr. 275 00:19:51.930 --> 00:19:54.250 Wesley read a letter he received but 276 00:19:54.280 --> 00:19:59.220 yesterday from London giving an account of the words of a young man who has been for 277 00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:04.460 some a young woman who has been, for some time in an extraordinary way. 278 00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:06.500 The purport or the substance of her 279 00:20:06.530 --> 00:20:11.620 message is that woe is beginning, or in a matter, begun. 280 00:20:11.650 --> 00:20:17.180 She said, There are many papists in England who are contriving a massacre, but 281 00:20:17.210 --> 00:20:21.330 will not be able to affect anything till after the King's death. 282 00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:23.660 She further said that the time of Mr. 283 00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:26.940 Wesley's removal is at hand, that it will 284 00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:33.010 be by suffering, and that very probably he will return to London no more. 285 00:20:33.040 --> 00:20:36.700 But of this she's not positive. 286 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:41.250 When Newton and his itinerant sailed off to Dublin. 287 00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:44.660 At the end of that time, Newton writes, I 288 00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:49.440 felt something sorrowful chiefly for the message from the London, which, if it 289 00:20:49.470 --> 00:20:54.500 should prove true, makes me fear I shall see his face no more. 290 00:20:54.530 --> 00:21:00.810 So I have a lot of other quotes from those events, but I want to get to maybe 291 00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:04.860 something that you might be very interested in. 292 00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:12.380 And that is exactly how they related. 293 00:21:12.410 --> 00:21:15.660 After all these different visits and 294 00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:21.180 interaction with him, they continued to correspond. 295 00:21:21.210 --> 00:21:26.940 We have five letters of Newton and five letters of Whitfield. 296 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:30.620 Now, they're not overlapping, so you're not getting an interchange. 297 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.290 There are gaps, so you sort of have to figure that out. 298 00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:35.290 But in these letters, two differences 299 00:21:35.320 --> 00:21:40.900 emerged, and each one of them, each side pressed for their own position. 300 00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:45.660 Newton defended the Calvinistic view of imputed righteousness, that one is 301 00:21:45.690 --> 00:21:52.330 declared righteous as a declaration, whereas Wesley saw this as dangerous 302 00:21:52.360 --> 00:21:55.810 because he was convinced it would lead to careless living. 303 00:21:55.840 --> 00:22:00.620 If you're totally right with God, well, you don't obey any motivation. 304 00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:04.290 The other doctrine was the doctrine of perfection. 305 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:08.780 Wesley pressed for instantaneous and at times entire sanctification, 306 00:22:08.810 --> 00:22:13.500 whereas Newton saw sanctification as gradual and progressive. 307 00:22:13.530 --> 00:22:17.020 Though it's interesting that earlier, 308 00:22:17.050 --> 00:22:21.540 because of his interaction with the Methodist let's call him the Wesleyan 309 00:22:21.570 --> 00:22:28.900 Methodist, he began first he didn't like the idea of perfection perfectionism. 310 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:33.050 And then he began to think, well, it might be something to this. 311 00:22:33.080 --> 00:22:36.120 So this is what he writes. 312 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.380 This is 1762. 313 00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:41.500 About this time I begin to alter my 314 00:22:41.530 --> 00:22:46.540 sentiments in some measure about a point much disputed the doctrine of perfection. 315 00:22:46.570 --> 00:22:48.700 Indeed, I cannot approve of the 316 00:22:48.730 --> 00:22:53.980 explications and pretensions some have given, nor do I think perfection, strictly 317 00:22:54.010 --> 00:22:58.460 speaking, attainable in this mortal state or compatible with it. 318 00:22:58.490 --> 00:23:03.900 But I begin to think that some who are reproached and misunderstood upon this 319 00:23:03.930 --> 00:23:08.980 account do indeed experience much power and peace beyond what I've known. 320 00:23:09.010 --> 00:23:12.140 And I believe I have done wrong to limit the Lord. 321 00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:15.460 And instead of disputing now I would turn 322 00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:20.280 to Him and by earnest prayer and treat Him to set me at liberty also and give me a 323 00:23:20.310 --> 00:23:24.570 larger measure of what his promises encourage me to expect. 324 00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:26.900 So he did that. 325 00:23:26.930 --> 00:23:29.460 Though he came back three or four months 326 00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:35.540 later, he had been away, and he had reversed his opinion, 327 00:23:35.570 --> 00:23:39.740 he says, upon and what he did, and he wrote this change of opinion. 328 00:23:39.770 --> 00:23:42.120 He went back to the diary, the note in the 329 00:23:42.150 --> 00:23:45.260 margin not much room in the margin four months earlier. 330 00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:47.330 And he wrote in the margin these words in 331 00:23:47.360 --> 00:23:52.540 bold print upon farther or further reflection and observation. 332 00:23:52.570 --> 00:23:54.260 That's a key piece here. 333 00:23:54.290 --> 00:23:59.220 I must fear that what there is good in this matter is mixed with much evil. 334 00:23:59.250 --> 00:24:01.460 Enthusiasm is breaking in like a flood. 335 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.160 And if those of you understood that there 336 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:09.050 was that happening also down in the London area, and he never forgot that. 337 00:24:09.080 --> 00:24:14.660 He never forgot what he saw because he was living in the towns. 338 00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:18.380 And so 25 years later, he says, there was 339 00:24:18.410 --> 00:24:23.200 a woman he remembers way back, there was a woman in Liverpool when I lived there, who 340 00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:28.920 was so perfect that she declared she tried to sin but could not. 341 00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:35.740 About the year 1773, this strange doctrine spread like wildfire in Mr. 342 00:24:35.770 --> 00:24:41.380 Wesley societies, and there are several persons improved or set upon it. 343 00:24:41.410 --> 00:24:43.620 They said he gives some examples. 344 00:24:43.650 --> 00:24:48.420 They said that death was the wages of sin, but as they were perfect freed from sin, 345 00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:52.140 they took it into their heads that would never die, he says. 346 00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:53.420 Others I have known. 347 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:54.570 This is not just he's heard about. 348 00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:58.980 He probably heard about what was going down going on in the London area, he says. 349 00:24:59.010 --> 00:25:04.330 Others I have known who thought themselves too good to repeat the Lord's Prayer. 350 00:25:04.360 --> 00:25:06.980 Forgive us our trespasses, for they 351 00:25:07.010 --> 00:25:11.000 supposed they had no trespasses to be forgiven. 352 00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:16.780 Yes, and some thought themselves too perfect to need intercession of Christ. 353 00:25:16.810 --> 00:25:22.460 So that was the extremes that he was experiencing, and that's what he says. 354 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:24.220 And there are a couple of other examples 355 00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:31.810 of that, but I want to just end with a couple of points here. 356 00:25:31.840 --> 00:25:37.090 Newton, though he disagreed with Wesley on a couple of those theological 357 00:25:37.120 --> 00:25:46.570 issues, he was also quick to defend the Wesley and the Methodist. 358 00:25:46.600 --> 00:25:52.460 He writes to a fellow Calvinist, a pastor, there is much to be lamented. 359 00:25:52.490 --> 00:25:54.380 He's speaking as a Calvinist here. 360 00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:56.180 There is much to be lamented in Mr. 361 00:25:56.210 --> 00:26:00.420 Wesley's scheme, but he is not an enemy of the gospel. 362 00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.400 I mean, some were saying it, 363 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.810 though very dark, with respect to some glorious truths. 364 00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:11.500 He meant glorious Calvinistic truths. Right. 365 00:26:11.530 --> 00:26:18.290 I have, however, the most satisfactory evidence that the Lord works by him and 366 00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:23.540 his brethren, and in midst of all the chaff of opinions which he too earnestly 367 00:26:23.570 --> 00:26:31.460 contends for, he has a sincere dis aim to the glory of God and the good of soils. 368 00:26:31.490 --> 00:26:37.620 Some of his preachers and people I know to be excellent persons, 369 00:26:37.650 --> 00:26:43.700 though there are too many ranked under his banner who do him little honor, 370 00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:48.440 but rather cause the ways of truth to be evil spoken of. 371 00:26:49.080 --> 00:26:53.360 He didn't count, discount everybody, but he was able to separate, 372 00:26:53.880 --> 00:27:02.050 and even Wesley recognized that Newton had a healer of breaches. 373 00:27:02.080 --> 00:27:04.140 That's how he described Newton. 374 00:27:04.170 --> 00:27:08.700 And in fact, on one occasion, he asked Newton to intervene and to speak to those 375 00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:13.780 people in the ways that you can to those people that I don't have access to. 376 00:27:13.810 --> 00:27:15.980 And that was very helpful. 377 00:27:16.010 --> 00:27:21.140 And at the same time, though, he could challenge his own Calvinist people. 378 00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:27.480 This is what he said to John Rylan, and that's the book over there. 379 00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:33.810 Rylan had he's only 18, and he published a 200 or so page book of poems. 380 00:27:33.840 --> 00:27:34.380 Poems. 381 00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:39.860 They were long, long deals, and they're mostly anti Armenian stuff. 382 00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:41.050 All right? 383 00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:46.400 And he was coming from a high Calvinist type of home, but Newton was sort of a 384 00:27:46.430 --> 00:27:51.330 father figure to this young lad and felt, oh, I don't like what I read here. 385 00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:55.220 And so he took the risk and wrote to young 386 00:27:55.250 --> 00:28:00.940 Rylan, who was 18, newton writes, you say, this, obviously 387 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.380 was a quote from the and was a quote from the preface. 388 00:28:03.410 --> 00:28:08.540 I aimed to displease the Armenians, end of quote. 389 00:28:08.570 --> 00:28:15.020 I had rather you had aimed to be useful to them than despite than to displease them. 390 00:28:15.050 --> 00:28:21.380 There are many Armenians who are so although he'd say only for lack of clear 391 00:28:21.410 --> 00:28:26.980 light, they fear the Lord and walk humbly and walk humbly before him. 392 00:28:27.010 --> 00:28:31.090 Now, these should not be displeased by endeavoring to declare the truth as you 393 00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:36.460 are in terms the most offensive to them we can find, but rather we should seek out 394 00:28:36.490 --> 00:28:40.380 the softest and most winning way of encountering their prejudices. 395 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:46.380 Otherwise we make a parade and grow big with our sense of wisdom and importance. 396 00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:49.260 But we shall do little good. 397 00:28:49.290 --> 00:28:51.330 Our Lord, you know, taught that his 398 00:28:51.360 --> 00:28:57.330 disciples, as they were able to bear it, he didn't aim to displease them. 399 00:28:57.360 --> 00:29:01.940 You will say, perhaps say a humble Armenian. 400 00:29:01.970 --> 00:29:05.460 Surely that is impossible. 401 00:29:05.490 --> 00:29:10.180 He says, I believe it's not more impossible to find a humbler Armenian than 402 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:15.500 a proud, self sufficient Calvinist because he felt the doctrines. 403 00:29:15.520 --> 00:29:18.660 If you really understand it from a Calvinist perspective where God is doing 404 00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:23.290 most of the work, who are you to make you're so great? 405 00:29:23.320 --> 00:29:26.050 That's sort of the idea there. 406 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:34.050 Let's end with the last two letters of Wesley to Newton. 407 00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:37.260 To hear their perspective about each other. 408 00:29:37.290 --> 00:29:39.380 Wesley acknowledged to Newton that when 409 00:29:39.410 --> 00:29:42.780 they first met, they did not have full agreement doctrinally. 410 00:29:42.800 --> 00:29:44.540 But that did not hinder their fellow 411 00:29:44.570 --> 00:29:49.780 relationship because they each saw each other's brothers as brothers in Christ. 412 00:29:49.810 --> 00:29:53.220 He says this quote upon this ground of 413 00:29:53.250 --> 00:29:57.780 friendship, brothers in Christ commence the acquaintance. 414 00:29:57.810 --> 00:30:02.660 Perhaps I might say more the friendship between you and me. 415 00:30:02.690 --> 00:30:04.810 We both knew there was a difference in our 416 00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:08.140 opinions and consequently in our expressions. 417 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:10.780 But notwithstanding this, we tasted each 418 00:30:10.810 --> 00:30:16.700 other's spirits and often took sweet counsel together. 419 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.620 The last letter, and I only found this 420 00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:23.090 last year the last letter of Wesley to Newton. 421 00:30:23.120 --> 00:30:27.500 And that's probably going to be published in the next volume of letters. 422 00:30:27.530 --> 00:30:31.500 But of not enough of this disputing, all I 423 00:30:31.530 --> 00:30:37.260 desire is that we may walk according to the 13th, chapter one corinthians, which 424 00:30:37.290 --> 00:30:40.810 surely difference of opinion need not hinder. 425 00:30:40.840 --> 00:30:43.050 Certainly I believe some of your opinions 426 00:30:43.080 --> 00:30:47.220 to be just as wrong as you believe mine to be. 427 00:30:47.250 --> 00:30:50.290 But this does not prevent my loving you 428 00:30:50.320 --> 00:30:57.460 yay and seriously thinking of you, thinking you are much holier than me. 429 00:30:57.490 --> 00:31:01.500 That's the last word I can find of Wesley to Newton. 430 00:31:01.530 --> 00:31:08.570 The last one is John Newton's comment about Wesley and the Wesleyans. 431 00:31:08.600 --> 00:31:10.260 And this is 25 years later. 432 00:31:10.290 --> 00:31:13.500 This is 1789. 433 00:31:13.530 --> 00:31:19.020 He writes this person, who later on in the letter he does 434 00:31:19.050 --> 00:31:23.940 work on the issue of perfectionism, how we want to describe it. 435 00:31:23.970 --> 00:31:27.020 But at the beginning, this is how he introduces that letter. 436 00:31:27.050 --> 00:31:33.440 I hope I am no party man, a denominational man. 437 00:31:34.040 --> 00:31:40.380 I know there are many excellent people and some judicial useful preachers in Mr. 438 00:31:40.410 --> 00:31:43.540 Wesley's Wesley's connection. 439 00:31:43.570 --> 00:31:46.240 And I would yea and I do rejoice in the 440 00:31:46.270 --> 00:31:49.380 good which the Lord is pleased to do among them. 441 00:31:49.410 --> 00:31:52.330 Armenians, as they are called, who love 442 00:31:52.360 --> 00:31:57.520 the Savior and by him walk according to the rule of the gospel and overcome the 443 00:31:57.550 --> 00:32:01.090 world, are no less dear to me than Calvinist. 444 00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.660 And I find persons of this character agree 445 00:32:04.690 --> 00:32:09.740 with me in experience, though they differ from me in expression. 446 00:32:09.770 --> 00:32:11.740 Beautifully put, I think. 447 00:32:11.770 --> 00:32:16.810 And perhaps some hold religious hold some religious sentiments which I deem 448 00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:20.050 erroneous I mean, they both said that about each other. 449 00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:25.020 But whoever he says but whoever does the will of God, I would say, is the say. 450 00:32:25.050 --> 00:32:30.570 The same is my brother and my sister and my mother. 451 00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:34.810 And that was written a year after 452 00:32:34.840 --> 00:32:40.140 John Newton served as one of the pallbearers to Charles Wesley. 453 00:32:40.170 --> 00:32:43.260 And that was after Charles Wesley request. 454 00:32:43.290 --> 00:32:44.540 Okay, thank you. 455 00:32:44.570 --> 00:32:46.960 Thank you so much. 456 00:32:49.800 --> 00:32:50.320 Wonderful.