WEBVTT

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Sir, thank you for the welcome.
Thank you for the welcome.

bd7e79ef-d6ad-4247-b2ac-972651b700b2-0
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I'm going to just sort of read
what I have written. I will

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pause occasionally, but I really
want to focus my remarks today

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on Susie Cunningham. Stanley
looks like I didn't even put her

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name properly up at the top, but
let me just start with this and

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let you know who Susie is. I
hope some of you have

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encountered her in the past.

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By the end, I hope that you will
understand why she seems, in my

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estimation, worthy of this time,
our time, and of her for her

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contributions to the topic of
the conference.

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In 2220, years ago, Susie
Cunningham Stanley, who was then

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the professor of historical
theology at Messiah College,

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published Holy Boldness, Women's
preachers, autobiographies, and

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the sanctified self. In this
volume she analyzed

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autobiographies of 34 American
Wesleyan Holiness Preachers, Dr.

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Stanley or Susie.

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As she is commonly called,
examine these 19th century

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personal accounts, looking for
something that she called the

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sanctified self. Of course,
theologically rooted in the

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Westland Holiness tradition, she
summarized the distinctive

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doctrine that compels this
tradition as a distinct second

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work of grace following
conversion, in which the heart

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is cleansed of inbred sin and
filled.

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With God's love, and then for
some in the Westland Holiness

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tradition, including Susie, this
sanctification experience came

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with a parallel intensification
of prophetic authority which

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derives from the Holy Spirit.
Stanley found as she looked

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through these many
autobiographies, that these

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women claimed for themselves in
varying ways, a graced.

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Autonomous self that enabled
them to act as public leaders in

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ways impossible prior to their
sanctification.

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20 years have passed since Susie
published that book. Susie's now

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retired, you see her picture up
here on the slide, and she was

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recently placed on Hospice. She
never wrote her own

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autobiography of her sanctified
self, and she notes in her book

a00d9f2a-a11a-44d8-bded-988c9d7d418c-4
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that most Wesleyan Holiness
women's autobiographies offer

a00d9f2a-a11a-44d8-bded-988c9d7d418c-5
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very little factual information
or self analysis.

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Instead, they offer glimpses of
their self understanding.

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For me as an academic in this
same Wesleyan holiness tradition

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in the United States.

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And a friend of Susies. I know
of the great debt that women in

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my tradition owe to Susie, and
this conference seemed an appt

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moment to gather up some
glimpses directly from her while

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I could. Earlier this year,
Susie and I met three times via

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zoom. I posed her, I posed 3
open-ended questions in advance,

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and then I recorded the
interviews so the remainder of

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what I'm going to offer today.

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Our glimpses summarized from
Susie's many articles, her books

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and notes shared with me, as
well as the interview, and

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anything that you hear rendered
in the first person are direct

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quotes from her.

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I hope you've had a chance to
look through these many

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accolades. Susie has had a
remarkable career and I don't

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have time to go through them
all, but I wanted you to have

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sort of the overview as ioffer
what I can.

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In her book Holy Boldness, she
wrote that sanctification

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fosters this graced, autonomous
self. So I asked her, looking

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back on your life, Susie, tell
me your sanctification story and

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how it freed you to engage in
prophetic.

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Leadership Susie Cunningham was
born on May 3rd, 1948 into a

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churchgoing family. She was
baptized at 2 weeks in the

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Methodist Episcopal Church in
Ashland, KY, and two years later

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her parents transferred their
membership to a nearby

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congregation of the Church of
God Anderson. IN it was that

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church, the Church of God
Anderson IN that instilled in

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Susie an ethic of neighbor love.

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And infused a theological
heritage that supported women in

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ministry and advocated for the
marginalized poor, Susie

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acknowledged when I asked her
this question she said, well, my

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whole life is my sanctification
story. As a 6 year old child,

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she report responded to an altar
call to claim salvation during a

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revival service. She recalls the
next spiritual step at the age

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of 13 of age in.

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A church in Newton Falls, OH,
which she said was a hotbed of

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holiness and Reverend Lily
McCutcheon was the pastor, Susie

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recalled. Lily McCutcheon was
the conservative voice of the

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whole denomination and a very
good preacher, she said. I have

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a snapshot in my mind of being
on the left side of the church

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wearing a Black Hat, little
Black Hat and gloves.

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And when I heard the invitation,
I went to the altar. That is all

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I remember.

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Looking back now, I know she
preached. Phoebe, Phoebe Palmer.

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Shorter way, consecration,
faith, testimony. I had no

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struggle. I took it for what it
was. Sanctification was

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expected.

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In the ensuing years, Susie's
leadership skills and

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self-expression were encouraged
to participation in music

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preaching youth group. She
remembers encountering a few

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more women exemplars from her
early years, like Pauline

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Maxwell, A Holiness advanced
evangelist at Camp Sychar, a

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camp meeting she attended as a
teenager.

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With these women in mind during
her adolescence, Susie could

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only imagine herself as a future
missionary in Central America,

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and so she pursued Spanish
language study in preparation.

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She remembers feeling no limits
to her gifts or freedoms to lead

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in the church. But when she
stepped outside of her church

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through youth, youth for Christ,
and got involved in the more

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evangelical settings, she found
that not all Christians share

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her optimistic and liberative
Wesleyan holiness, views of

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women's public leadership. It
was there, among a larger

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Christian community, that she
was first called a heretic.

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And that's where she first
encountered holiness and

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sanctification as negative
terms, and that puzzled her. She

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went home and said to her
parents, I believe what you

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taught me.

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How can I be a heretic? Her
parents explained that not all

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Christians shared their holiness
beliefs, but she could stand

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firm in them. For Susie, she
says that being holy and

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holiness meant something
optimistic, free.

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Empowered.

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And that's how she saw herself
in God.

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In her 20s she married John
Stanley, a minister in the

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Church of God Anderson, and John
was her champion.

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00:08:24.470 --> 00:08:29.366
Together they had two children,
Mandy and Mike, and home. With

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00:08:29.366 --> 00:08:34.184
them. Susie Stanley began to
read about Christian activism in

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00:08:34.184 --> 00:08:38.692
the 19th century, as well as
publications by 20th century

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00:08:38.692 --> 00:08:42.811
feminist writers. Susie
remembers. In 1973, while my

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children napped, she told me, I
began to read the 6th volume,

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00:08:47.629 --> 00:08:52.370
history of women suffrage by
Elizabeth Cady Stanton. At all.

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00:08:52.370 --> 00:08:55.789
My reading had nothing to do
with religion.

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At the time, I was interested in
what would become known as

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00:09:00.570 --> 00:09:05.516
women's studies, but that field
had not yet that field did not

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yet exist. As I read, I was so
surprised to find 45 women

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clergy, mostly Unitarian
Universalists, mentioned in the

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00:09:14.545 --> 00:09:19.726
earliest volumes. When John came
home and saw how much I had read

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00:09:19.726 --> 00:09:24.280
one day, he asked me what you
do, knock out the children.

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00:09:24.280 --> 00:09:26.400
Susie couldn't put it down.

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She read and she read and she
read. Susie traces her call to

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00:09:31.506 --> 00:09:36.624
ministry and subsequent activism
to a conference she attended

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00:09:36.624 --> 00:09:41.826
with her infant daughter Mandy
Young mother who heard a litany

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00:09:41.826 --> 00:09:46.862
constructed of quotes from 19th
century Christian women, the

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00:09:46.862 --> 00:09:52.146
activist voices of abolitionist
Sarah Grimke, Methodist founder

69c37291-edd4-4fc6-a9b2-235b6715e6f2-5
00:09:52.146 --> 00:09:57.100
of the WCTU Francis Willard, and
Alma White the Fire Brown.

66c1d17b-fea4-4936-b517-c8847c01d328-0
00:09:57.180 --> 00:10:00.999
Firebrand, founder of Pillar of
Fire that we heard about some

66c1d17b-fea4-4936-b517-c8847c01d328-1
00:10:00.999 --> 00:10:01.800
this morning.

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-0
00:10:02.540 --> 00:10:07.096
They were recited at the
Evangelical Women's Caucus

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-1
00:10:07.096 --> 00:10:12.705
Conference in November of 1975
in Washington, DC. The calls for

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-2
00:10:12.705 --> 00:10:18.401
women equality embedded in these
four mothers voices awakened in

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-3
00:10:18.401 --> 00:10:23.746
Susie what she calls a twofold
call. First, to challenge the

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-4
00:10:23.746 --> 00:10:28.741
church to mirror Christ in
treating all people as equal,

78ceb269-caae-4409-ad6d-f17cab67856c-5
00:10:28.741 --> 00:10:32.510
and secondly to share the gospel
with the.

3f2c92ed-137f-40f9-b48e-03c938641b93-0
00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:37.152
Unchurched or de Churched women
declaring that true liberation,

3f2c92ed-137f-40f9-b48e-03c938641b93-1
00:10:37.152 --> 00:10:40.010
liberation can only be found in
Christ.

2a5b18d6-c2dd-4e21-96ea-055c85e4f620-0
00:10:41.980 --> 00:10:46.234
Susie, who was becoming an
academic, soon found a

2a5b18d6-c2dd-4e21-96ea-055c85e4f620-1
00:10:46.234 --> 00:10:51.339
methodology or a lens that has
focused much of her academic

2a5b18d6-c2dd-4e21-96ea-055c85e4f620-2
00:10:51.339 --> 00:10:56.785
work and human liberation in a
feminist perspective. Written by

2a5b18d6-c2dd-4e21-96ea-055c85e4f620-3
00:10:56.785 --> 00:11:02.230
Letty Russell sit, Stanley, read
the phrase usable past, a term

2a5b18d6-c2dd-4e21-96ea-055c85e4f620-4
00:11:02.230 --> 00:11:06.230
first used by literary critic
Van Wick Brooks.

6031e4d9-7849-4218-807a-47c7ba957cd3-0
00:11:07.010 --> 00:11:12.590
This usable past described the
task of discovering images and

6031e4d9-7849-4218-807a-47c7ba957cd3-1
00:11:12.590 --> 00:11:18.440
stories from history that, upon
reflection, offer strength and a

6031e4d9-7849-4218-807a-47c7ba957cd3-2
00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.760
common hopeful direction for
present endeavors.

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-0
00:11:24.070 --> 00:11:28.919
Looking back at the many women
that Susie has uncovered who has

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-1
00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:33.844
brought for us, and I suspect a
number of people today have used

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-2
00:11:33.844 --> 00:11:38.087
Susie's work that have built
upon these stories. In the

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-3
00:11:38.087 --> 00:11:42.178
usable past that Susie has
helped assemble, she has a

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-4
00:11:42.178 --> 00:11:46.345
favorite. She had to work hard
to figure out who's her

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-5
00:11:46.345 --> 00:11:50.816
favorite, but she picked one.
She chose Emma Whittemore, a

adc9112b-34b0-4af6-9fb7-aba4751426b5-6
00:11:50.816 --> 00:11:54.150
Presbyterian, a wealthy woman
who embraced.

22506bc6-4aaf-47ac-80e4-79b4b088579f-0
00:11:54.230 --> 00:11:56.210
Theology of sanctification.

8081c04f-0f72-4320-af59-ec0864963270-0
00:11:57.310 --> 00:12:00.782
Whittamore came to faith while
visiting what is now the New

8081c04f-0f72-4320-af59-ec0864963270-1
00:12:00.782 --> 00:12:02.230
York City Rescue mission.

0d6b9470-dc20-4a3e-a0bc-628b343b16a2-0
00:12:02.890 --> 00:12:07.104
Dressed in her finery, Emma
Witter Whittemore knelt with

0d6b9470-dc20-4a3e-a0bc-628b343b16a2-1
00:12:07.104 --> 00:12:11.171
those she described as quote
river thieves, drunkards,

0d6b9470-dc20-4a3e-a0bc-628b343b16a2-2
00:12:11.171 --> 00:12:15.090
gambled gamblers and abandoned
women of the streets.

a72c63c2-9911-4055-a980-ab69e129c5ca-0
00:12:16.180 --> 00:12:20.006
Finding yourself disoriented,
Whittamore heard more directly

a72c63c2-9911-4055-a980-ab69e129c5ca-1
00:12:20.006 --> 00:12:23.080
from these women's lives and
came to understand.

9766277c-f880-4283-bfa3-60c534375ce0-0
00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:29.060
Quote often these girls are far
more sinned against and more

9766277c-f880-4283-bfa3-60c534375ce0-1
00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:31.640
cruelly censured than they
deserve.

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-0
00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:38.124
End Quote Whittemore would lead
to see to see 97 doors of hope

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-1
00:12:38.124 --> 00:12:43.186
homes for fallen and outcast
women formed across the country.

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-2
00:12:43.186 --> 00:12:47.840
Whittemore's philosophy
continues to resonate with Susie

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-3
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:52.005
across the centuries. They
mirror her own Holiness

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-4
00:12:52.005 --> 00:12:56.414
convictions, Whittemore
declared. Quote we will never

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-5
00:12:56.414 --> 00:13:01.476
forcibly restrain such girls
from leaving the home. No bolts,

ef7fc6bd-0d5a-4587-a1ca-81a5a3b6bebe-6
00:13:01.476 --> 00:13:02.130
no bars.

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-0
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:07.117
Are ever upon our doors only.
Our only restraint is love. If

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-1
00:13:07.117 --> 00:13:11.993
that doesn't keep them with us,
nothing else is likely to win

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-2
00:13:11.993 --> 00:13:16.318
them to Christ. Susie
summarized. What a more emphasis

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-3
00:13:16.318 --> 00:13:21.351
on love illustrates the social
holiness approach to ministering

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-4
00:13:21.351 --> 00:13:25.755
among those whom Christ has
identified as neighbor, the

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-5
00:13:25.755 --> 00:13:30.317
primary approach to social
holiness. Work is one of love,

82d5820b-0385-4266-8a61-7d9829b0931b-6
00:13:30.317 --> 00:13:31.890
not one of judgment.

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-0
00:13:33.530 --> 00:13:38.077
Susie was involved from the
early 70s and evangelicals for

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-1
00:13:38.077 --> 00:13:42.239
social action and the
Evangelical Women's Caucus, now

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-2
00:13:42.239 --> 00:13:46.786
called Christian Feminism.
Today, when challenges arose to

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-3
00:13:46.786 --> 00:13:50.485
widen the scope of that
organization beyond the

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-4
00:13:50.485 --> 00:13:55.032
empowerment of women, Susie who
struck held strong pro ERA

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-5
00:13:55.032 --> 00:13:59.425
views, supported abortion
rights, and privately affirmed

2ce31f1b-df5b-433f-bb94-ba1704a75877-6
00:13:59.425 --> 00:14:02.740
monogamous gay relationships
stepped away.

70ed85a3-6027-4639-97b3-eb970464f6be-0
00:14:03.390 --> 00:14:08.370
From these organizations, she
viewed the power dynamics and

70ed85a3-6027-4639-97b3-eb970464f6be-1
00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:12.935
special interests not rooted in
a theology of love and

70ed85a3-6027-4639-97b3-eb970464f6be-2
00:14:12.935 --> 00:14:18.247
empowerment, and it was her call
to work on focusing on women's

70ed85a3-6027-4639-97b3-eb970464f6be-3
00:14:18.247 --> 00:14:20.240
leadership and ministry.

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-0
00:14:21.400 --> 00:14:26.185
Susie began teaching historical
theology in 1983 at what was

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-1
00:14:26.185 --> 00:14:30.264
then Western Evangelical
Seminary. She finished her

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-2
00:14:30.264 --> 00:14:35.127
dissertation on Alma White and
the Pillar of Fire in 1987 and

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-3
00:14:35.127 --> 00:14:39.442
moved in 1995 to Messiah
College. For years, Susie was

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-4
00:14:39.442 --> 00:14:43.364
the only woman academic who
attended the Wesleyan

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-5
00:14:43.364 --> 00:14:48.227
Theological Society meetings.
After such a meeting, a student

a4ac66e8-1fbf-4c55-b251-06488a843ecd-6
00:14:48.227 --> 00:14:52.150
came up to her and asked why
isn't there a place?

83040c7a-4c5f-41a4-b3fd-8365c8d668d2-0
00:14:52.290 --> 00:14:56.914
For Wesleyan Holiness women to
gather the dream for the

83040c7a-4c5f-41a4-b3fd-8365c8d668d2-1
00:14:56.914 --> 00:15:00.960
Wesleyan Holiness Women Clergy
Conference began.

9d7d0994-0527-4582-9709-3520195936a0-0
00:15:02.260 --> 00:15:06.961
38 years have transpired since
Susie founded the Wesleyan

9d7d0994-0527-4582-9709-3520195936a0-1
00:15:06.961 --> 00:15:11.420
Holiness Women Clergy
Conference. She was the singular

9d7d0994-0527-4582-9709-3520195936a0-2
00:15:11.420 --> 00:15:16.284
force that brought together
denominational leaders from, at

9d7d0994-0527-4582-9709-3520195936a0-3
00:15:16.284 --> 00:15:21.309
that time, 7 denominations to
collaborate in a brand new way.

b0501d5a-061d-451f-892b-4517968f6749-0
00:15:22.260 --> 00:15:27.065
In Glorieta, NM, at a Southern
Baptist centre. Ironically, they

b0501d5a-061d-451f-892b-4517968f6749-1
00:15:27.065 --> 00:15:31.345
didn't tell them it was a
conference for ordained women.

b0501d5a-061d-451f-892b-4517968f6749-2
00:15:31.345 --> 00:15:35.625
375 women in ministry from 7
denominations gathered. The

b0501d5a-061d-451f-892b-4517968f6749-3
00:15:35.625 --> 00:15:39.680
goals were to create a hub for
networking, mentoring,

b0501d5a-061d-451f-892b-4517968f6749-4
00:15:39.680 --> 00:15:43.509
inspiring, supporting,
researching and resourcing.

acb4854f-83db-4942-9034-21e3232a1d99-0
00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:48.300
The most recent gathering of
this organization was held in

acb4854f-83db-4942-9034-21e3232a1d99-1
00:15:48.300 --> 00:15:51.780
March of this year in Grapevine,
TX, and nearly 600 women

acb4854f-83db-4942-9034-21e3232a1d99-2
00:15:51.780 --> 00:15:55.200
attended from the Church of the
Nazarene, Church of God,

acb4854f-83db-4942-9034-21e3232a1d99-3
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:58.920
Anderson, the Westland Church,
and the Free Methodist Church.

4c40f335-13f0-4e4e-99c4-3e9fb7f6f6b4-0
00:16:03.280 --> 00:16:07.522
When I ask Susie about prophetic
leadership in our second

4c40f335-13f0-4e4e-99c4-3e9fb7f6f6b4-1
00:16:07.522 --> 00:16:09.790
conversation, she told me this.

2c41e75a-f340-4a9d-8be9-db1c5c523935-0
00:16:10.830 --> 00:16:14.769
In preparing for this interview,
I really resisted thinking go

2c41e75a-f340-4a9d-8be9-db1c5c523935-1
00:16:14.769 --> 00:16:16.020
myself as a prophet.

9419a75b-7d82-4c71-9c56-426dc4fc40ad-0
00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:21.124
But as I reviewed all the
justice activities of my life, I

9419a75b-7d82-4c71-9c56-426dc4fc40ad-1
00:16:21.124 --> 00:16:22.880
see they are prophetic.

294a0756-6fa6-4876-a63b-b6c987fdcf68-0
00:16:23.560 --> 00:16:29.376
The prophetic word that I have
to offer, Susie says, is this.

294a0756-6fa6-4876-a63b-b6c987fdcf68-1
00:16:29.376 --> 00:16:30.690
Sexism is sin.

f9694ef5-b39f-4f1a-9356-0a6424ab1b86-0
00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:37.342
Sometimes it has been the
hardest thing for people to hear

f9694ef5-b39f-4f1a-9356-0a6424ab1b86-1
00:16:37.342 --> 00:16:41.566
or to deal with sexism. Sexism
wouldn't qualify in their

f9694ef5-b39f-4f1a-9356-0a6424ab1b86-2
00:16:41.566 --> 00:16:42.900
definition of sin.

8f2b129e-8d39-40f1-90be-b2580cb71e99-0
00:16:44.190 --> 00:16:48.240
Thinking back, I see myself more
as an activist academic.

c866bbc6-8aa1-4f40-b2c6-5d55312dca68-0
00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:53.514
I didn't put my social Holiness
activities on my resume. Maybe I

c866bbc6-8aa1-4f40-b2c6-5d55312dca68-1
00:16:53.514 --> 00:16:57.596
didn't see them as a part of my
professional life or they

c866bbc6-8aa1-4f40-b2c6-5d55312dca68-2
00:16:57.596 --> 00:17:01.115
weren't a part of getting
tenure. So I left those

c866bbc6-8aa1-4f40-b2c6-5d55312dca68-3
00:17:01.115 --> 00:17:05.338
activities off. I wish I'd
listed them all. They show who I

c866bbc6-8aa1-4f40-b2c6-5d55312dca68-4
00:17:05.338 --> 00:17:05.550
am.

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-0
00:17:06.790 --> 00:17:10.760
I call myself someone who
promotes social holiness.

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-1
00:17:10.760 --> 00:17:15.340
Russian Bush used the term
social gospel and social justice

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-2
00:17:15.340 --> 00:17:19.998
as rooted in the Kingdom of God.
Wesley used the term social

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-3
00:17:19.998 --> 00:17:24.884
holiness and love. I would argue
the distinctions aren't really

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-4
00:17:24.884 --> 00:17:29.541
that great. I always came back
in my teaching about holiness

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-5
00:17:29.541 --> 00:17:34.122
and told students it all boils
down to love. Where do I fit

a6fc436e-2cb5-470d-8cbb-76f3a26159dc-6
00:17:34.122 --> 00:17:36.260
into the prophetic category?

9e676d60-ad48-4a0a-a83d-26e28d3807b7-0
00:17:36.970 --> 00:17:40.740
Certainly in the category of
being misunderstood, attitudes

9e676d60-ad48-4a0a-a83d-26e28d3807b7-1
00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:44.448
have changed some, but some
people could never hear what I

9e676d60-ad48-4a0a-a83d-26e28d3807b7-2
00:17:44.448 --> 00:17:46.900
have had to say because I was a
woman.

d9646dc0-1728-4d39-8965-41bfe0481b7d-0
00:17:48.340 --> 00:17:53.443
And like the prophets, I have
wholly anger. I have never

d9646dc0-1728-4d39-8965-41bfe0481b7d-1
00:17:53.443 --> 00:17:59.085
written about this, but I have
enough holy anger for an entire

d9646dc0-1728-4d39-8965-41bfe0481b7d-2
00:17:59.085 --> 00:18:04.188
city, and it propels me why
can't a woman be angry about

d9646dc0-1728-4d39-8965-41bfe0481b7d-3
00:18:04.188 --> 00:18:09.919
immigration and 27 other things?
We need more women to be angry

d9646dc0-1728-4d39-8965-41bfe0481b7d-4
00:18:09.919 --> 00:18:11.799
and act, but not sin.

dfd6e83e-5c8a-472f-8b44-2edab4b71c70-0
00:18:12.820 --> 00:18:17.354
The trope about women not being
angry is being used to silence

dfd6e83e-5c8a-472f-8b44-2edab4b71c70-1
00:18:17.354 --> 00:18:17.570
us.

b850fce4-aa32-4bca-8d96-4c459a484eff-0
00:18:18.290 --> 00:18:23.177
Anger is a part of me. We need
more women to speak and to write

b850fce4-aa32-4bca-8d96-4c459a484eff-1
00:18:23.177 --> 00:18:27.682
about this. I was first called
Susie, says a prophet at my

b850fce4-aa32-4bca-8d96-4c459a484eff-2
00:18:27.682 --> 00:18:31.806
ordination by a man on the
committee. We had had some

b850fce4-aa32-4bca-8d96-4c459a484eff-3
00:18:31.806 --> 00:18:32.570
struggles.

9187f428-3d81-439c-b768-eab8e2f0255c-0
00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:37.850
Being a woman was OK, but being
a feminist was not. I told them

9187f428-3d81-439c-b768-eab8e2f0255c-1
00:18:37.850 --> 00:18:41.350
who I was because it was going
to come out anyway.

e7c42e8f-689b-4e32-b7b4-b02804f1a5eb-0
00:18:42.370 --> 00:18:47.029
When I was called a prophet at
my ordination, I knew I had

e7c42e8f-689b-4e32-b7b4-b02804f1a5eb-1
00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:51.610
educated them about my calling,
and it had come from God.

2d11c2b4-277c-40e3-87d1-ba32d807fbdf-0
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.523
After the first Wesleyan
Holiness Women Clergy

2d11c2b4-277c-40e3-87d1-ba32d807fbdf-1
00:18:56.523 --> 00:19:00.510
Conference, Susie edited a
volume called honoring the call.

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-0
00:19:01.970 --> 00:19:06.735
In her introduction, she focuses
on Miriam's Prophet of Israel

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-1
00:19:06.735 --> 00:19:11.349
alongside her brothers Aaron and
Moses, and Susie traces the

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-2
00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.584
biblical narrative of God's call
on women for prophetic

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-3
00:19:15.584 --> 00:19:19.896
leadership to Exodus, and noted
the way that many of the

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-4
00:19:19.896 --> 00:19:24.056
Wesleyan holiness foremothers,
Fannie McDowell Hunter,

d6e90dc6-f55c-4e9d-89cc-c91b59619b7b-5
00:19:24.056 --> 00:19:28.670
Catherine Booth also had rooted
their theology of call here.

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-0
00:19:30.010 --> 00:19:34.418
City Susie pointed out three
takeaways. First, preaching

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-1
00:19:34.418 --> 00:19:39.369
arises from a call directly from
God as expressed in Scripture.

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-2
00:19:39.369 --> 00:19:44.087
Secondly, women in the Westland
Holiness tradition can stand

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-3
00:19:44.087 --> 00:19:49.115
firm in a movement that declares
the Holy Spirit calls and gifts

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-4
00:19:49.115 --> 00:19:53.833
women and men alike. The Holy
Spirit does not have a list of

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-5
00:19:53.833 --> 00:19:58.706
gifts for women and a list of
gifts for men. The gifts are for

f12dd14c-2b69-447a-9696-560f14c143bd-6
00:19:58.706 --> 00:19:59.480
everybody.

fd685618-b993-406a-b2ff-28f0c27931a5-0
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.975
And sanctification empowers and
nourishes all to use their

fd685618-b993-406a-b2ff-28f0c27931a5-1
00:20:04.975 --> 00:20:09.708
gifts. And thirdly, we are
different in our callings, yet

fd685618-b993-406a-b2ff-28f0c27931a5-2
00:20:09.708 --> 00:20:15.013
there is neither Jew nor Greek,
slave nor free, male nor female.

fd685618-b993-406a-b2ff-28f0c27931a5-3
00:20:15.013 --> 00:20:17.870
All are one in Christ
escalations.

337db60d-a2e7-4a9a-a850-2404096d1aa8-0
00:20:18.530 --> 00:20:19.310
Repeats.

775c4b71-eae0-49c0-86af-5644c66f034d-0
00:20:20.850 --> 00:20:25.251
At the end of this introduction,
Susie referenced the work of

775c4b71-eae0-49c0-86af-5644c66f034d-1
00:20:25.251 --> 00:20:29.369
Robert Bella, calling on Miriam
and our Wesleyan Holiness

775c4b71-eae0-49c0-86af-5644c66f034d-2
00:20:29.369 --> 00:20:33.416
foremothers to quote be a
community of memory so that we

775c4b71-eae0-49c0-86af-5644c66f034d-3
00:20:33.416 --> 00:20:35.830
can be a community of hope
today.

06119600-1da9-464a-898f-7b6c725f8674-0
00:20:37.510 --> 00:20:42.095
In honoring our call, Susie does
not shy away from noting that

06119600-1da9-464a-898f-7b6c725f8674-1
00:20:42.095 --> 00:20:46.681
when Marian and Aaron disagreed
with Big Brother Moses, Miriam

06119600-1da9-464a-898f-7b6c725f8674-2
00:20:46.681 --> 00:20:50.030
alone was punished and sent
outside the camp.

f32e0998-c91b-4120-97d8-a601a5636a84-0
00:20:50.870 --> 00:20:53.740
Have our profits been heard? She
wondered.

1f21305b-ed03-40a2-b09a-75714433b0be-0
00:20:54.390 --> 00:20:57.990
Or have they been pushed outside
the camp?

73de6678-932c-4cf5-8d98-487e3bb19a77-0
00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:04.350
So is holy boldness enough?

12141bd6-ee0f-44ea-8b4f-104b162591fc-0
00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:07.700
I asked Susie. What do you see?

28cd9ec1-5897-4da7-8626-0b2e0fd2c9be-0
00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:12.335
What would you offer to Wesleyan
Holiness Women in ministry

28cd9ec1-5897-4da7-8626-0b2e0fd2c9be-1
00:21:12.335 --> 00:21:15.200
today? What about that stained
glass ceiling?

27e4d2af-9cdd-4ece-8dd5-e2967daaa55e-0
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:20.377
40 years ago we were talking
about the problem of placement.

27e4d2af-9cdd-4ece-8dd5-e2967daaa55e-1
00:21:20.377 --> 00:21:24.875
Has anything changed? Whose
stories, which women continue to

27e4d2af-9cdd-4ece-8dd5-e2967daaa55e-2
00:21:24.875 --> 00:21:26.939
be voices that motivate you?

7410d428-0d66-4f44-aafa-ee2023749417-0
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.560
When I asked her this question
about.

965e9a16-37e0-49d9-a26b-069cfc68f35f-0
00:21:32.860 --> 00:21:37.734
Improvement or progress? She
said. I don't feel we've made

965e9a16-37e0-49d9-a26b-069cfc68f35f-1
00:21:37.734 --> 00:21:39.470
near enough progress.

bacbefe3-1efd-4c03-a6f7-ad9d8d28c9ea-0
00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:41.650
I could get depressed.

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-0
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.076
But there is some progress. I
wish someone would do a study of

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-1
00:21:48.076 --> 00:21:52.705
Wesleyan holiness wouldn't
clergy. And look at the women

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-2
00:21:52.705 --> 00:21:57.822
who've been involved that have
become the seminary presidents,

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-3
00:21:57.822 --> 00:22:02.533
professors, bishops, clergy.
There is a small presence of

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-4
00:22:02.533 --> 00:22:07.731
women present in the hierarchy
of our churches. There are a few

055d2cb2-4021-4c80-b7a0-a8c11ba70d19-5
00:22:07.731 --> 00:22:10.330
in institutional administration.

ea34407c-4178-429d-b97b-1d75bf3155ad-0
00:22:11.090 --> 00:22:15.683
That they weren't there before.
But we are not near where we

ea34407c-4178-429d-b97b-1d75bf3155ad-1
00:22:15.683 --> 00:22:20.426
should be. We can't discount the
people that are clergy now. I

ea34407c-4178-429d-b97b-1d75bf3155ad-2
00:22:20.426 --> 00:22:25.019
hear stories from pastors who
say I heard so and so in 1998,

ea34407c-4178-429d-b97b-1d75bf3155ad-3
00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:29.462
and she was such an influence.
These stories have changed.

ea34407c-4178-429d-b97b-1d75bf3155ad-4
00:22:29.462 --> 00:22:31.420
Attitudes must be counted.

4aa75969-5955-43f9-8b17-4228c16b7e6e-0
00:22:32.140 --> 00:22:36.979
In the progress made over 40
years, Susie sees that Wesley

4aa75969-5955-43f9-8b17-4228c16b7e6e-1
00:22:36.979 --> 00:22:41.573
and Holiness women clergy
provided a place for Wesleyan

4aa75969-5955-43f9-8b17-4228c16b7e6e-2
00:22:41.573 --> 00:22:46.987
Holiness women to network, learn
and see other women empowered in

4aa75969-5955-43f9-8b17-4228c16b7e6e-3
00:22:46.987 --> 00:22:51.908
ministry. Now denominations.
Many of them sponsor their own

4aa75969-5955-43f9-8b17-4228c16b7e6e-4
00:22:51.908 --> 00:22:55.190
conferences and have internal
councils.

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-0
00:22:55.940 --> 00:23:01.067
And thankfully, social media has
done a lot to isolate, to lessen

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-1
00:23:01.067 --> 00:23:05.884
the isolation so many keenly
felt in the earlier decades. And

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-2
00:23:05.884 --> 00:23:10.778
yes, as we've heard earlier in
the presentation, the number of

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-3
00:23:10.778 --> 00:23:15.750
women clergy has increased. For
example, when Wesleyan holiness

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-4
00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:20.334
women clergy first started
nearly 40 years ago, the Church

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-5
00:23:20.334 --> 00:23:25.461
of the Nazarene had less than 2%
of its women clergy as senior or

465fa939-7222-4890-aad8-3259d368a53b-6
00:23:25.461 --> 00:23:25.850
solo.

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-0
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:31.377
Pastors in 2019, the most recent
numbers I have, 11% of women are

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-1
00:23:31.377 --> 00:23:36.421
so low for senior pastors, 38%
were associate pastors at the

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-2
00:23:36.421 --> 00:23:41.548
time. Sadly, 40 years ago, the
problem of placement was named

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-3
00:23:41.548 --> 00:23:46.593
as a priority challenge to be
addressed, finding that church

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-4
00:23:46.593 --> 00:23:51.554
to serve and leadership roles,
especially the paid ones and

215b086c-8e4c-4a0e-9163-ce90816a44b4-5
00:23:51.554 --> 00:23:56.020
especially when your life
trajectory does not follow.

3d317d22-0c6e-4bfa-a3b4-5106c4d201ea-0
00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:57.170
The assumptions.

3523ea0a-ce1c-4ebf-9103-488736cda376-0
00:23:57.850 --> 00:24:02.710
This continues to remain a
challenge in 2019.

903f1212-c775-4a1e-9e71-029986713061-0
00:24:03.570 --> 00:24:08.686
Over 20%, more than one in five
of all ordained women in the

903f1212-c775-4a1e-9e71-029986713061-1
00:24:08.686 --> 00:24:12.210
Church of the Nazarene remain
unassigned.

12d0e719-777f-43fb-8307-6745b8246465-0
00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:17.540
The status. The stats from other
denominations were hard for me

12d0e719-777f-43fb-8307-6745b8246465-1
00:24:17.540 --> 00:24:18.120
to come by.

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-0
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:24.111
Susie told me the story of what
encourages her and it's the

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-1
00:24:24.111 --> 00:24:28.555
story of her daughter Mandy
Miller, who is a minister in the

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-2
00:24:28.555 --> 00:24:32.999
United Methodist Church. When
Mandy was looking for a church

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-3
00:24:32.999 --> 00:24:37.224
to serve in the Church of God
Anderson, she had completed

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-4
00:24:37.224 --> 00:24:41.085
seminary and did 5 internships
and had all the right

acaf6c1d-5d51-4787-a387-2703e972ce5e-5
00:24:41.085 --> 00:24:41.959
connections.

87be3e76-3493-460d-b14e-2d2a15b6d36a-0
00:24:42.580 --> 00:24:45.610
And she could not find a
pastoral role.

9c77d351-479d-4361-bb08-36934e1c222f-0
00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.010
She switched to dominations.

8aa1deb3-d8dd-41fe-bf4f-63f6717b1e29-0
00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:55.809
One with an appointment system,
and she's now serving two

8aa1deb3-d8dd-41fe-bf4f-63f6717b1e29-1
00:24:55.809 --> 00:25:01.046
churches in Reading, PA, with
active ministries to immigrants

8aa1deb3-d8dd-41fe-bf4f-63f6717b1e29-2
00:25:01.046 --> 00:25:06.030
and the local prison. Mandy is,
for Susie, a sign of hope.

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-0
00:25:06.690 --> 00:25:11.671
Mandy's church is now Susie's
church. She rejoices in being in

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-1
00:25:11.671 --> 00:25:16.416
a church where God is preached
and understood in a language

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-2
00:25:16.416 --> 00:25:20.765
that is not exclusively male,
and in a church that has

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-3
00:25:20.765 --> 00:25:25.035
leadership that is not
exclusively male. She sees the

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-4
00:25:25.035 --> 00:25:28.989
culture as having made some
progress with women's

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-5
00:25:28.989 --> 00:25:33.417
professional roles and
responsibilities. But the church

a190de1e-011c-424f-83f2-c5a1feb0be18-6
00:25:33.417 --> 00:25:36.660
is moving forward in fits and in
starts.

e82f2952-6b18-409f-b0e9-0a8077b11f78-0
00:25:37.990 --> 00:25:41.641
As I reviewed Susie's legacy and
had these wonderful

e82f2952-6b18-409f-b0e9-0a8077b11f78-1
00:25:41.641 --> 00:25:44.880
conversations with her, I found
myself asking.

c660919a-709b-4c2b-94f8-14ea01352484-0
00:25:45.560 --> 00:25:50.750
How is the sanctified self being
formed within the church today?

c660919a-709b-4c2b-94f8-14ea01352484-1
00:25:50.750 --> 00:25:55.222
Susie said. It was expected. I
wanted to be sanctified.

c660919a-709b-4c2b-94f8-14ea01352484-2
00:25:55.222 --> 00:25:56.499
Everyone I knew.

27635db9-3c92-4168-9835-90052cd0decd-0
00:25:57.550 --> 00:26:01.652
Had experienced a sense of
sanctification. We were looking

27635db9-3c92-4168-9835-90052cd0decd-1
00:26:01.652 --> 00:26:04.990
to be empowered, and the Holy
Spirit does that.

b2c39f1d-be6c-40b6-b938-9d69ec9b62c2-0
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.988
I was asking, is the church less
afraid of prophetic authority

b2c39f1d-be6c-40b6-b938-9d69ec9b62c2-1
00:26:10.988 --> 00:26:12.750
and righteous anger today?

74ec2dac-261a-46f5-b84a-d291f7bd9ac4-0
00:26:13.560 --> 00:26:17.200
Are women ministers required to
be quiet and patient?

4a00e331-d82e-4133-a360-dbdeee69b077-0
00:26:18.910 --> 00:26:24.234
When something righteously wrong
sits in front of them, is holy

4a00e331-d82e-4133-a360-dbdeee69b077-1
00:26:24.234 --> 00:26:28.975
boldness enough to move the
church beyond having a small

4a00e331-d82e-4133-a360-dbdeee69b077-2
00:26:28.975 --> 00:26:30.390
presence present?

bca3eaba-ac64-475f-b564-f5bd1e2515dd-0
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.310
Who will speak out and call out
any group that trains and

bca3eaba-ac64-475f-b564-f5bd1e2515dd-1
00:26:37.310 --> 00:26:40.160
ordains but won't place or
promote?

746b1d9f-54d2-4a30-91b1-05af9ac0dada-0
00:26:40.810 --> 00:26:44.430
Who will plainly say sexism is
sin?

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-0
00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:50.156
One of the contributors to
honoring the call wrote

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-1
00:26:50.156 --> 00:26:55.835
sometimes a look back is a step
forward. Perhaps looking back at

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-2
00:26:55.835 --> 00:27:01.077
the prophetic, pioneering life
of Susie Cunningham, Stanley

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-3
00:27:01.077 --> 00:27:06.582
will compel others to take heed
of the usable past and step in

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-4
00:27:06.582 --> 00:27:11.475
to the power of the Holy Spirit,
and perhaps collect 34

6ccf28ac-6070-4fc5-babf-cc81126d91e6-5
00:27:11.475 --> 00:27:16.630
autobiographies from sanctified
women in the 20th century.

a5d99bf9-fed1-4520-8ded-c9a6c3faad1c-0
00:27:17.170 --> 00:27:19.940
Because they were there. Thank
you.

5bacf279-9e79-4154-83c3-11336d1b44f2-0
00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:22.440