WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.690 This is this is a work of, in some ways, speculative or maybe creative theology. 2 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:09.460 I'm trying out some ideas and I want to hear back. 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.180 Right? So am I on the right track? 4 00:00:12.210 --> 00:00:15.940 I'm trying to extend wesley, is this a faithful extension or not? 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:17.220 That's my question for you. 6 00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:21.380 So please, please listen and let me know what you think. 7 00:00:21.400 --> 00:00:23.700 So this is a social holiness the problem 8 00:00:23.730 --> 00:00:27.480 of dementia for the doctrine christian perfection. 9 00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:38.300 In 2009, my father you can see here that's my wife and I with my dad, my father 10 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:44.380 suffered a massive stroke, and it was at a relatively young age of 72. 11 00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:46.100 Once upon time, I thought that was older. 12 00:00:46.120 --> 00:00:48.100 I don't think that I don't think that anymore. 13 00:00:48.130 --> 00:00:49.540 It seems really young. 14 00:00:49.570 --> 00:00:53.420 While initially he made a wonderful recovery from this catastrophic event, a 15 00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:56.500 slow decline set in with noticeably increased cognitive disabilities. 16 00:00:56.530 --> 00:01:01.260 By by 2012, not long into this process, he was diagnosed with dementia, and 17 00:01:01.290 --> 00:01:05.100 eventually this diagnosis was clarified as dementia with Lewy bodies. 18 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:07.040 This form of dementia includes a buildup 19 00:01:07.070 --> 00:01:10.620 of plaque in the brain that mimics the effects of Parkinson's disease. 20 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:12.130 Many of the elements that you would expect 21 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:17.210 to manifest with this condition surfaced general confusion, loss of memory, 22 00:01:17.240 --> 00:01:21.020 sometimes seeing or experiencing things that were not present, et cetera. 23 00:01:21.050 --> 00:01:25.100 Slowly, he lost the ability to take care of his personal hygiene needs and very 24 00:01:25.130 --> 00:01:28.540 suddenly, in December of 2015, lost the ability to walk. 25 00:01:28.570 --> 00:01:32.020 And this necessitated his placement in a long term nursing home. 26 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:35.700 Prior to this, my dad had exhibited a strong, strong feeling of displacement. 27 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:38.340 He didn't find his current home familiar 28 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:40.930 anymore and constantly sought to leave, to go home. 29 00:01:40.960 --> 00:01:41.720 Sometimes you just go. 30 00:01:41.750 --> 00:01:44.820 Wandering out of the home as well was scary at times. 31 00:01:44.850 --> 00:01:47.380 This behavior intensified in the nursing home. 32 00:01:47.410 --> 00:01:49.570 When, still mobile in his wheelchair, he 33 00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:53.320 spent a large part of each day wandering through the home. 34 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.660 His ability to fully relate to others 35 00:01:59.690 --> 00:02:03.140 became limited because of his confused speech. 36 00:02:03.170 --> 00:02:05.100 And now, just a few years later, he 37 00:02:05.130 --> 00:02:08.730 actually spends most of his time sleeping and is no longer mobile. 38 00:02:08.760 --> 00:02:10.980 My mother visits with him every day. 39 00:02:11.010 --> 00:02:14.060 She actually pays for someone to go on days she can't go. 40 00:02:14.090 --> 00:02:16.320 She's a saint. 41 00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:19.420 And my brother and I visit at every opportunity. 42 00:02:19.450 --> 00:02:21.660 As most dementia patients, his general 43 00:02:21.690 --> 00:02:24.730 confusion is broken by remarkable moments of lucidity. 44 00:02:24.760 --> 00:02:26.420 However, these are very, very few and far 45 00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:29.700 between, similar to the experience of others in the room. 46 00:02:29.730 --> 00:02:31.540 I'm sure there are other significant 47 00:02:31.570 --> 00:02:34.340 people in my life that have developed this condition. 48 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:38.100 My doctoral supervisor has the exact same diagnosis as my dad. 49 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.780 And actually, one of my colleagues at Roberts had to retire just a couple of 50 00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:45.020 years ago in his 50s because of early onset dementia. 51 00:02:45.050 --> 00:02:47.700 So this is here, right? 52 00:02:47.730 --> 00:02:50.700 This is real, and this is part of our continual experience. 53 00:02:50.730 --> 00:02:52.940 So my father's condition, these other 54 00:02:52.970 --> 00:02:56.060 stories, they raise so many theological questions for me. 55 00:02:56.090 --> 00:02:58.380 How do we relate to God when we no longer 56 00:02:58.410 --> 00:03:02.700 remember who we are, when I can understand what is going around 57 00:03:02.730 --> 00:03:07.500 me, and even when I fail to understand myself? 58 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:09.700 Well, I have been taught in my theological 59 00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:12.820 training to recognize at least some of the influence of dualistic, that is, mind, 60 00:03:12.850 --> 00:03:18.340 body, and individualistic atomistic thinking on theological formulation. 61 00:03:18.370 --> 00:03:21.740 The issue of dementia puts these issues in stark relief. 62 00:03:21.770 --> 00:03:23.780 If our sense of personhood is intimately 63 00:03:23.810 --> 00:03:29.260 connected to our ability to think as it is in the Cartesian philosophical 64 00:03:29.290 --> 00:03:33.540 anthropology, then dementia is a particularly nefarious condition because 65 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:35.660 this condition limits our ability to think. 66 00:03:35.690 --> 00:03:39.980 And thus, with respect to cartesian dualism, it entails a loss of personhood. 67 00:03:40.010 --> 00:03:44.460 And even if we don't accept this cartesian dualism, dementia does not leave us any 68 00:03:44.480 --> 00:03:47.580 better off with the volitional and effective aspects of the person. 69 00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:51.440 All of them are ravaged by this condition. 70 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:54.860 So we're left with all kinds of questions 71 00:03:54.890 --> 00:03:58.500 regarding the function of basic theological concepts and practices. 72 00:03:58.530 --> 00:04:02.740 Is someone with advanced dementia able to respond to preventing grace, 73 00:04:02.770 --> 00:04:08.980 just to accept justifying faith and live a life of progressive sanctification? 74 00:04:09.010 --> 00:04:14.020 My impulse, honestly, is to say yes, but I don't know if it's just because I feel so 75 00:04:14.050 --> 00:04:17.700 connected to this now that I just want to say, of course, yes. 76 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.580 I set for myself the challenge of saying, well, let's take the hardest one. 77 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.620 Let's take perfection 78 00:04:23.650 --> 00:04:28.880 and see if we can understand what perfection might mean in the context of 79 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:31.700 dementia and if we can make sense of it in some way. 80 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.780 And honestly, this isn't something that Wesley talked about, but if we can 81 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:40.900 faithfully extend Wesley here, I want to answer yes. 82 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:42.540 So this is my attempt, right? 83 00:04:42.570 --> 00:04:44.460 So here's my thesis. 84 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:46.720 Here's my thesis. 85 00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:51.100 Dementia does not exclude any Christian 86 00:04:51.130 --> 00:04:55.300 from all aspects of salvation and sanctification. 87 00:04:55.330 --> 00:04:59.780 However, it does mean that the experience of 88 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:03.460 salvation and sanctification will be different for those with dementia. 89 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:05.220 The experience of dementia means that 90 00:05:05.250 --> 00:05:10.740 community becomes crucial for the fulfillment of sanctification. 91 00:05:10.770 --> 00:05:14.860 And in fact, I would probably say that regardless of dementia or not. 92 00:05:14.890 --> 00:05:18.860 And so rather than considering entire sanctification as a state of perfection, 93 00:05:18.890 --> 00:05:23.220 we need to consider the impact of perfecting community. 94 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:24.760 And that's my category I'm going to 95 00:05:24.760 --> 00:05:27.380 develop in the context of this paper, perfecting community. 96 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:29.900 I'll show you the steps I take to get there. 97 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:32.380 So this paper will proceed by briefly 98 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:35.620 defining first Christian perfection and then dementia. 99 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:39.500 Then, after arguing that our concept of personhood challenges our understanding of 100 00:05:39.530 --> 00:05:43.620 dementia, we will consider how new models for Christian perfection, 101 00:05:43.650 --> 00:05:47.860 how new models can expand our understanding of personhood. 102 00:05:47.890 --> 00:05:51.860 Finally, I will argue that we should adopt a new symbol of Christian perfection, 103 00:05:51.890 --> 00:05:56.220 namely perfecting community, that will make possible the potential of Christian 104 00:05:56.250 --> 00:05:59.940 perfection, even for those with advanced dementia. 105 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:05.020 So first, perfection, and we've heard about this in a numerous paper stage, so I 106 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.580 really don't tend to spend long on this at all, just a couple of points as a general 107 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.100 summary, christian perfection can be defined as the state of being where love 108 00:06:13.130 --> 00:06:16.660 rules in the heart, such that the heart is entirely devoted to God. 109 00:06:16.690 --> 00:06:20.340 It is both a possibility and an expectation for wesleans that mature 110 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:23.580 Christians will be perfected in love in this lifetime. 111 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.260 This is nothing less than a state of holiness, which is, of course, why 112 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:29.660 Christian perfection is also referred to his entire sanctification. 113 00:06:29.690 --> 00:06:32.480 Wesley refers to it this way he defines it 114 00:06:32.510 --> 00:06:36.660 in this sense the loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. 115 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.580 This implies that no wrong temper, none contrary to love, remains in the soul, and 116 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.580 that all the thoughts, words and actions are governed by pure love. 117 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.900 As we've heard multiple times today, there is a dynamic and progressive sense to 118 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:52.180 Wesley's ideas such that I believe it's better to speak of perfecting love rather 119 00:06:52.210 --> 00:06:59.020 than perfect love, to speak of teleosis rather than perfectus right. 120 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:04.000 This dynamic sense of development, in other words, to think of this as a state 121 00:07:04.030 --> 00:07:10.140 of becoming, not necessarily a state of being in that dynamic sense. 122 00:07:10.170 --> 00:07:12.420 In fact, perfection as a state of being is 123 00:07:12.450 --> 00:07:16.260 problematic because it distorts the dynamic nature of our relationships and 124 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:21.700 applies a kind of unequivocal knowledge or unambiguous capacity to respond to God. 125 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:23.400 Yet, I mean, those those who are 126 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:27.860 sanctified in this way, there will be a qualitative difference that is expected 127 00:07:27.890 --> 00:07:30.740 for those who respond to God of this kind of yes. 128 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:34.540 This difference grounds a new orientation that is directed properly towards God and 129 00:07:34.570 --> 00:07:37.860 provides the direction for growth and holiness. 130 00:07:37.890 --> 00:07:41.740 In light of this teleological interpretation, mark Mann argues that we 131 00:07:41.770 --> 00:07:46.620 are perfect in the sense of being properly oriented toward our absolute goal in God 132 00:07:46.650 --> 00:07:50.780 such that our lives are thereafter formed and shaped by this orientation. 133 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.460 The centrality of this doctrine to Methodist theology is widely recognized. 134 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.700 Randy Maddox claims that Wesley believed 135 00:07:56.730 --> 00:08:00.620 God raised up methodism specifically to teach this doctrine. 136 00:08:00.650 --> 00:08:02.840 The language of perfection always caused 137 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:05.140 some confusion in the reception of this idea. 138 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.420 All of us are deeply in tune, of course, with our own imperfections, so that it 139 00:08:08.450 --> 00:08:13.580 almost seems arrogant to claim perfection as a state of being. 140 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.920 When disposal rose over this question of the nature of perfection in relation to 141 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.540 sin, wesley was quick to point out that perfection did not mean perfection of 142 00:08:20.570 --> 00:08:25.220 natural capabilities like knowledge, or freedom from natural limitations. 143 00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:30.500 In his plain account of Christian perfection, wesley clearly states that 144 00:08:30.530 --> 00:08:34.960 the perfect are not free from infirmities such as weakness or slowness of 145 00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:39.820 understanding, irregular quickness, or heaviness of imagination. 146 00:08:39.850 --> 00:08:42.240 Such another kind are impropriety of 147 00:08:42.270 --> 00:08:44.500 language and gracefulness of pronunciation. 148 00:08:44.530 --> 00:08:46.700 To which one might add a thousand nameless 149 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:49.340 defects, either in conversation or behavior. 150 00:08:49.370 --> 00:08:51.860 From such infirmities as these, none are 151 00:08:51.890 --> 00:08:56.300 perfectly freed till their spirits return to God. 152 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:59.620 And when responding to questions about his understanding of Christian perfection, 153 00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:03.140 wesley consistently declares that perfection in this sense does not mean 154 00:09:03.170 --> 00:09:05.860 anyone is free from infirmity, ignorance or mistake. 155 00:09:05.890 --> 00:09:10.540 In other words, it is possible in Wesley's understanding to be perfect and still be 156 00:09:10.560 --> 00:09:17.340 infirm and ignorant and mistaken, even to still be in need of atonement for 157 00:09:17.370 --> 00:09:21.340 mistakes of judgment and practice, for omissions shortcomings and defects. 158 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.060 So for Westley, you can be perfect and 159 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.500 still suffer the limitations of being human, right? 160 00:09:25.530 --> 00:09:27.260 In a profound sense. 161 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:29.040 All of these comments at least open the 162 00:09:29.040 --> 00:09:31.940 door to talking about Christian perfection and dementia together. 163 00:09:31.970 --> 00:09:34.180 Dementia clearly is an infirmity. 164 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:38.420 My question still remains though, whether the disability that dementia creates is 165 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:41.900 too great to allow for any deeper sanctification. 166 00:09:41.930 --> 00:09:45.740 So we'll move on to define dementia. 167 00:09:45.760 --> 00:09:47.160 When my father was diagnosed with 168 00:09:47.160 --> 00:09:50.120 dementia, we were given a document published by Group Health that included 169 00:09:50.150 --> 00:09:53.100 the following definition not this one, but a different one. 170 00:09:53.130 --> 00:09:55.620 Dementia is a disorder characterized by 171 00:09:55.650 --> 00:09:59.500 problems with memory and at least one other cognitive function learning, 172 00:09:59.530 --> 00:10:04.180 reasoning, language, spatial ability, orientation, and handling complex tasks. 173 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:08.220 So this problems that are severe enough to 174 00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:10.500 interfere with the activities of daily living. 175 00:10:10.520 --> 00:10:13.980 This document is careful to distinguish dementia from memory loss and mild 176 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.420 cognitive impairment that is consistent with aging. 177 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.620 Thus, the normal elements of aging are 178 00:10:18.650 --> 00:10:23.180 distinguished from the more severe deficiencies that come with dementia. 179 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.180 This definition corresponds to the standard definition that is given in the 180 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.540 World Health Organization International Classification of Diseases, and this is 181 00:10:30.560 --> 00:10:33.260 that definition here, which is very helpful. 182 00:10:33.290 --> 00:10:37.500 Dementia is a syndrome due to disease of 183 00:10:37.530 --> 00:10:42.980 the brain, usually of a chronic or progressive nature, in which there is 184 00:10:43.010 --> 00:10:47.740 disturbance of multiple higher cortical functions, including memory, thinking 185 00:10:47.770 --> 00:10:52.500 orientation, comprehension, calculation, learning capacity, language and judgment. 186 00:10:52.530 --> 00:10:55.180 Consciousness is not clouded. 187 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:58.740 The impairments of cognitive function are commonly accompanied and occasionally 188 00:10:58.770 --> 00:11:03.420 preceded by deterioration and emotional control, social behavior or motivation. 189 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.040 The syndrome occurs in Alzheimer's 190 00:11:05.070 --> 00:11:10.480 disease, in Cerebrovascular disease, and in other 191 00:11:10.510 --> 00:11:14.380 conditions, primarily or secondarily affecting the brain. 192 00:11:14.410 --> 00:11:18.500 This classification, which is designed for the sake of pathology, right, for 193 00:11:18.530 --> 00:11:23.340 defining, for determining who has this condition, 194 00:11:23.370 --> 00:11:28.380 understands dementia as a mental defect that primarily affects cognition. 195 00:11:28.400 --> 00:11:29.860 When your cognitive abilities are 196 00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:32.940 significantly reduced and there is no other apparent reason for the disability, 197 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:35.460 then you can be classed as having dementia. 198 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.080 This definition also indicates that this cognitive malfunction will lead to other 199 00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:42.820 issues, emotional and social, that creates a web of problems. 200 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:44.620 While these definitions are helpful and 201 00:11:44.650 --> 00:11:48.380 play an important role in giving structure and parameters for the helping 202 00:11:48.410 --> 00:11:52.380 professions, they are also significant for what they exclude. 203 00:11:52.410 --> 00:11:55.340 In his excellent book on this subject, 204 00:11:55.370 --> 00:11:59.200 Dementia Living in the Memories of God, John Swinton properly notes that 205 00:11:59.230 --> 00:12:04.540 definitions are not value neutral, they are often value forming. 206 00:12:04.560 --> 00:12:07.480 These definitions should cause us to ask questions about the assumptions that 207 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.020 ground them and the implications that flow from them in the first place. 208 00:12:11.050 --> 00:12:13.140 Swinton points out that definitions like 209 00:12:13.170 --> 00:12:17.500 these are, by design and necessity, universal and emphasize the impact on 210 00:12:17.530 --> 00:12:20.600 typical patients, something is lost and something is gained. 211 00:12:20.630 --> 00:12:22.520 In this approach, what is gained is a 212 00:12:22.550 --> 00:12:26.500 language that enables medical professionals to offer precise diagnoses 213 00:12:26.530 --> 00:12:29.700 in order to construct appropriate treatment plans. 214 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:31.300 Through this process, the condition is 215 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:35.460 named and a plan can be formed to deal with it medically and culturally. 216 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.340 This allows us to conceive of dementia as 217 00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:41.700 a brain condition with certain behavioral outcomes. 218 00:12:41.730 --> 00:12:47.180 What is lost in this definition is the social nature of the disease. 219 00:12:47.210 --> 00:12:53.020 Insofar as one's experience of dementia, of isolation, of loneliness, 220 00:12:53.050 --> 00:12:59.180 of malignant social positioning both create and exacerbate the condition. 221 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:00.780 Most devastatingly, though, is the idea 222 00:13:00.810 --> 00:13:04.620 that dementia is slowly a neurological defect. 223 00:13:04.650 --> 00:13:09.380 Dementia itself, the word itself, means deprived of mind. 224 00:13:09.410 --> 00:13:14.980 We quickly come to the conclusion that having dementia means losing one's mind. 225 00:13:15.010 --> 00:13:19.540 And surely this is the great fear we experience in the face of this condition. 226 00:13:19.570 --> 00:13:23.700 I will cease to be me in the end. 227 00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:26.260 This approach, this pathological 228 00:13:26.280 --> 00:13:29.460 neurological approach assumes that the most important aspects of human experience 229 00:13:29.490 --> 00:13:33.900 are neurological and that dementia is primarily a neurological defect. 230 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:35.740 This blinds us to the social realities 231 00:13:35.770 --> 00:13:39.180 implications of the experience of dementia. 232 00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:43.460 This idea, which most of us find utterly terrifying, raises so many questions. 233 00:13:43.490 --> 00:13:47.060 Primarily who am I if I can no longer remember, understand myself? 234 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.220 Those closest to me immediately behind these questions of 235 00:13:51.250 --> 00:13:55.340 classification are models of what it means to be human. 236 00:13:55.370 --> 00:13:57.400 I have a chart here where I'm going to 237 00:13:57.430 --> 00:14:01.940 sort of follow through this chart here that I've created. 238 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:04.300 In the modern dualistic Cartesian 239 00:14:04.330 --> 00:14:09.300 perspective, we are primarily thinking 240 00:14:09.330 --> 00:14:15.380 things, race cogatons, as he names it. 241 00:14:15.410 --> 00:14:18.020 And we're thinking things that bear some 242 00:14:18.050 --> 00:14:21.140 mysterious relation to that which is extended through space. 243 00:14:21.170 --> 00:14:23.180 John Locke likewise claims that a human 244 00:14:23.210 --> 00:14:28.460 being is a thinking, intelligent being that has reason and reflection and can 245 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:33.500 consider itself as a self, the same thinking thing in different times 246 00:14:33.530 --> 00:14:37.980 and places which it does only by that consciousness which is inseparable from 247 00:14:38.010 --> 00:14:42.060 thinking and as it seems to me to be essential to it. 248 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.140 This particular kind of anthropological 249 00:14:44.170 --> 00:14:47.300 dualism emerges in the modern era with Cartesian philosophy. 250 00:14:47.330 --> 00:14:49.940 If we are truly rescagatan's thinking 251 00:14:49.970 --> 00:14:54.420 things, if this defines what we mean by personhood, then it is clear that those 252 00:14:54.450 --> 00:15:00.500 who are intellectually deficient are actually less than persons. 253 00:15:00.530 --> 00:15:05.100 It is this exact problem out of modern philosophy, I think, that creates all of 254 00:15:05.130 --> 00:15:12.100 our issues with beginning of life and end of life matters, right where 255 00:15:12.130 --> 00:15:17.740 we imagine that there are humans that we can say are not persons, right? 256 00:15:17.770 --> 00:15:21.100 Which is bizarre, but it comes from here. 257 00:15:21.130 --> 00:15:24.080 I believe it comes from here. 258 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.420 I have a great example from Peter Singer. I don't know if you know. 259 00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:33.460 Peter Singer is a utilitarian philosopher 260 00:15:33.490 --> 00:15:41.480 who really believes that you can clearly define some humans as not persons. 261 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:48.100 He's all for radical forms of euthanasia, right? 262 00:15:48.130 --> 00:15:53.420 Until I just have this nice story until his mother got sick, the end of life. 263 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:54.760 And he paid all this money to keep her alive. 264 00:15:54.760 --> 00:15:56.720 In the interview he said, I don't have any clue why I'm doing it. 265 00:15:56.750 --> 00:15:59.620 It's a waste of money, but I can't seem to let her go. 266 00:15:59.640 --> 00:16:03.580 I mean, this kind of cognitive dissonance between his philosophical ideas and his 267 00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:07.740 life which I think has to happen out of this perspective. 268 00:16:07.770 --> 00:16:10.540 Clearly this definition of personhood is limited. 269 00:16:10.570 --> 00:16:14.500 There are two distinct but related forms of reductionism at work here. 270 00:16:14.530 --> 00:16:19.420 First, Cartesian mind body dualism reduces the person to merely a thinking thing. 271 00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:21.260 That's primarily what you are. 272 00:16:21.290 --> 00:16:27.100 And secondly, atomistic individualism places the self rather than the community. 273 00:16:27.130 --> 00:16:30.820 The self, including self consciousness at the center of human experience. 274 00:16:30.850 --> 00:16:35.460 It results in a disembodied and socially disconnected conception of the person. 275 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.020 And seeing Christian doctrines through this lens creates distortion as well. 276 00:16:39.050 --> 00:16:41.360 For example, it makes belief a function of 277 00:16:41.390 --> 00:16:46.420 my cognitive understanding of God's nature rather than a relationship of trust. 278 00:16:46.450 --> 00:16:48.180 It reduces the importance of my 279 00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:53.220 embodiedness and teaches that there is, you know, that it is my soul, merely my 280 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:55.860 soul which is being prepared for an eternity with God. 281 00:16:55.890 --> 00:16:59.420 More of a sanctification becomes a radically individualistic concept. 282 00:16:59.450 --> 00:17:00.860 In this idea of personhood. 283 00:17:00.890 --> 00:17:04.050 I am made holy through the work of the Spirit in me. 284 00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:08.810 Sanctification is not for the body, but the body may help the practice of holiness 285 00:17:08.840 --> 00:17:11.740 or the community, although holiness serves the community. 286 00:17:11.770 --> 00:17:15.180 But sanctification is for myself and my relationship to God. 287 00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:17.940 All of that, I'm claiming, is a distortion. 288 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:21.700 The danger of this kind of reductionistic thinking, especially for spiritual 289 00:17:21.730 --> 00:17:26.770 formation, is that it manifests in what Martin Boomer refers to as I it 290 00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:31.940 relationships treating other subjects as if they were objects. 291 00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:36.420 You are only real to me insofar as you are useful to me. 292 00:17:36.450 --> 00:17:39.860 I thou relationships are the key to genuine personhood. 293 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:43.680 I thou relationships are grounded in real connection with the other for the sake of 294 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:47.420 the other, treating other subjects as subjects in themselves. 295 00:17:47.450 --> 00:17:51.330 However, along with Boomer, we must acknowledge that the primary I vow 296 00:17:51.360 --> 00:17:55.880 relationship is always first and foremost with God. 297 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.480 So rethinking perfection then trying to 298 00:17:58.510 --> 00:18:01.860 rethink perfection in his book I highly recommend this book to you. 299 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:04.220 In his book Perfecting Grace, Mark H. 300 00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:08.420 Mann argues that the Wesleyan doctrine perfection needs to be better reconciled 301 00:18:08.450 --> 00:18:12.530 with contemporary understanding of theological anthropology which emphasizes 302 00:18:12.560 --> 00:18:16.810 the embodied nature of human beings and their social reality. 303 00:18:16.840 --> 00:18:20.980 This way of seeing human nature has been growing and is recognized by some as more 304 00:18:21.010 --> 00:18:26.090 consistent with the Hebrew worldview as opposed to the Greek worldview. 305 00:18:26.120 --> 00:18:31.560 To paraphrase Genesis two seven we are animated earth, terra, anamata. 306 00:18:31.590 --> 00:18:34.420 As Augustine even himself says in City of God. 307 00:18:34.450 --> 00:18:37.810 In other words, to be human is to be embodied. 308 00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:42.530 At the same time, you cannot simply reduce humanity to its material nature. 309 00:18:42.560 --> 00:18:47.500 But it is not clear that we exist apart from our embodied nature. 310 00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:51.090 One profound implication of this way of thinking of human nature is that our 311 00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:56.530 spiritual development is very much dependent on our social relatedness. 312 00:18:56.560 --> 00:19:02.250 It is our life together in community that forms us into mature and virtuous people 313 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:05.860 rather than some disembodied mystical process. 314 00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:08.010 That's what we do together. 315 00:19:08.040 --> 00:19:09.960 Man further recognizes that our sense of 316 00:19:09.990 --> 00:19:14.010 self is complex and exists in dialectical tension between the social and 317 00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:19.050 psychological forces that shape human nature and our enduring sense of self. 318 00:19:19.080 --> 00:19:23.200 While human beings are dynamically shaped by their relationships and various aspects 319 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:27.120 of their personal and social worlds, generally speaking human beings are able 320 00:19:27.150 --> 00:19:32.570 to weave these experiences together into a unified sense of self, a transcendent 321 00:19:32.600 --> 00:19:36.620 individuality that gives integrity to the person. 322 00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:40.460 When defining human nature, man suggests four linked polarities. 323 00:19:40.490 --> 00:19:42.940 He says that human beings are united 324 00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:47.740 centers of multiple dimensions the moral, the physical, the social. 325 00:19:47.770 --> 00:19:56.660 Human beings are fully individual and yet come to their fruition in relation. 326 00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:58.810 Human beings are fundamentally open and 327 00:19:58.840 --> 00:20:02.180 dynamic, but always within larger structures. 328 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:03.860 And human beings are a profound 329 00:20:03.890 --> 00:20:10.330 combination of a given and embedded nature that also possess a genuine freedom. 330 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:12.570 This way of conceptualizing human nature 331 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:16.500 requires significant adjustment for understanding spiritual formation. 332 00:20:16.530 --> 00:20:20.050 And here's a quote from man do I have this? 333 00:20:20.080 --> 00:20:21.700 No, I don't have that yet. 334 00:20:21.730 --> 00:20:23.250 That one's coming later. 335 00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:25.180 So there's a quote from man. 336 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:29.420 He says, indeed, so deeply are individuals 337 00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:36.460 embedded socially that it is highly problematic to consider holiness solely a 338 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:40.900 matter of a person's individual relatedness to God and others. 339 00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:46.180 No doubt individual holiness is important, but it is only part of the picture. 340 00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:48.660 Not only are individuals shaped by their 341 00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:54.900 communities, institutions, cultures and societies, but habits of sin and holiness 342 00:20:54.930 --> 00:20:59.050 can become embedded in the practices, systems and structures of those same 343 00:20:59.080 --> 00:21:04.050 communities, institutions, cultures and societies. 344 00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:08.530 Man concludes that our ability to be spiritually formed will be somewhat 345 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:12.810 dependent on our psychological and our social conditioning. 346 00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:13.420 Right? 347 00:21:13.450 --> 00:21:16.900 It's this embeddedness that leads to this formative idea. 348 00:21:16.930 --> 00:21:20.220 So when it comes to the doctrine of Christian perfection, 349 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:28.570 man proposes that we begin to use new symbols which can unpack this doctrine in 350 00:21:28.600 --> 00:21:33.460 relation to a more dynamic and social understanding of human nature. 351 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.250 Thus, alongside the more traditional 352 00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:42.220 symbols of perfecting love and renewal of the Emago day, man suggests additional 353 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:45.900 symbols which correspond to various aspects of human maturity. 354 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:47.380 I think I have these here. 355 00:21:47.410 --> 00:21:49.810 Let's see, I had these here. 356 00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:51.700 I'm going to come back to that quote in a minute. 357 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.520 So this is so this is Man's argument in his book, in the last latter chapter of 358 00:21:55.550 --> 00:22:01.280 his book that we need new symbols of what perfection actually looks like and we can 359 00:22:01.310 --> 00:22:05.380 distinguish different stages of perfection according to life stages. 360 00:22:05.410 --> 00:22:07.380 It's a really powerful idea. 361 00:22:07.410 --> 00:22:10.570 So that thinking about infancy, childhood, 362 00:22:10.600 --> 00:22:15.220 adolescence, adulthood, et cetera, we can think of perfecting hope for an infant. 363 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:20.980 We can think of perfecting will for a child, perfecting purpose, 364 00:22:21.010 --> 00:22:26.900 right, and competence for teenagers, for adolescents, perfecting fidelity for 365 00:22:26.930 --> 00:22:31.860 adulthood, perfecting care and perfecting wisdom for those later in life. 366 00:22:31.890 --> 00:22:33.940 And this is really embracing this idea 367 00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:39.800 that what Wesley must have meant is something dynamic and progressive. 368 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:41.180 We were talking about this a couple of 369 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:46.500 papers ago, I think, in a way, and I think this actually man actually spins this out. 370 00:22:46.530 --> 00:22:50.740 So it's the last two that are particularly relevant for our purposes today. 371 00:22:50.770 --> 00:22:52.860 Perfecting care is an extension of 372 00:22:52.890 --> 00:22:57.320 perfecting love, while perfecting love already orients us towards others in a 373 00:22:57.350 --> 00:23:01.700 profound way, such that our sense of holiness corresponds to our service, 374 00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:05.570 perfecting care broadens the scope of our regard. 375 00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:11.000 Care is this is a quote from man care is inclusive of the orientation and scope of 376 00:23:11.030 --> 00:23:15.380 love, but also tends to be parental and to take into account the larger context, 377 00:23:15.410 --> 00:23:19.680 situation and world of which individuals are apart. 378 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:23.860 Thus, perfecting care is oriented towards the whole. 379 00:23:23.890 --> 00:23:27.900 This means institutions and systems as well as individuals. 380 00:23:27.930 --> 00:23:32.260 And then finally, perfecting wisdom is an extension of the symbol of caring. 381 00:23:32.290 --> 00:23:37.500 It is the wisdom in the face of death to affirm the value of one's own life, and 382 00:23:37.530 --> 00:23:41.400 more to affirm the value of all life in creation itself. 383 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:43.570 In general, I believe that man has helped 384 00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:47.980 us to understand how this doctrine might be lived out in a contemporary context. 385 00:23:48.010 --> 00:23:50.420 I've learned a great deal from his work, 386 00:23:50.450 --> 00:23:55.500 but I'm struck that at the end, holiness is still about me 387 00:23:55.530 --> 00:23:59.780 and about my relationships to others, despite his focus on the fundamental 388 00:23:59.810 --> 00:24:03.140 nature of our embeddedness and relatedness. 389 00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:07.570 If this is truly the case, then it means that holiness in this regard is impossible 390 00:24:07.600 --> 00:24:12.660 for people with dementia who no longer have this same sense of self. 391 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:17.260 And maybe this is really the case, maybe I'm grasping, but I want to propose 392 00:24:17.290 --> 00:24:22.220 another symbol in addition to the symbols that man has proposed to extend this idea 393 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:26.540 and to really extend well beyond what Wesley intended. 394 00:24:26.570 --> 00:24:31.740 And this is a new symbol then, the idea of perfecting community. 395 00:24:31.770 --> 00:24:34.020 So this is where I had this quote from John. 396 00:24:34.040 --> 00:24:35.260 I'll come back to that in a moment. 397 00:24:35.290 --> 00:24:37.420 But here's, this is this quote from John 398 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:45.330 Swinton the important thing to see is that any diminution of the self 399 00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:49.460 is first and foremost a diminution of community. 400 00:24:49.490 --> 00:24:53.140 The self is an individual and a communal 401 00:24:53.170 --> 00:24:57.860 process, not an individual in her possession or state of mind. 402 00:24:57.890 --> 00:25:00.810 A person does not lose herself. 403 00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:04.020 Her community loses her. 404 00:25:04.050 --> 00:25:06.570 If this is so, then dementia is much more 405 00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:11.050 than a neurological disease which occurs within the brains of discrete individuals. 406 00:25:11.080 --> 00:25:14.460 Dementia is a communal and relational 407 00:25:14.490 --> 00:25:21.330 condition that involves, but cannot be defined by neurological decline. 408 00:25:21.360 --> 00:25:23.360 If we take Wesley seriously that 409 00:25:23.390 --> 00:25:29.570 perfection does not mean overcoming infirmity, it seems that the possibility 410 00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:35.570 of a form of perfection includes infirmity even dementia, right? 411 00:25:35.600 --> 00:25:39.290 If it is possible to conceive a perfecting community as a symbol of Christian 412 00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:42.260 perfection, then two elements will be necessary. 413 00:25:42.290 --> 00:25:44.420 First, the orientation of care will be 414 00:25:44.450 --> 00:25:48.420 from the community to the one with dementia. 415 00:25:48.450 --> 00:25:53.360 Thus, rather than perfecting the capacity to love. 416 00:25:55.800 --> 00:25:59.280 The capacity to love this aspect of the 417 00:25:59.310 --> 00:26:05.260 doctrine will consider perfecting the capacity to receive love. 418 00:26:05.290 --> 00:26:07.980 Perfecting the capacity to receive love. 419 00:26:08.010 --> 00:26:10.180 Advanced dementia includes a profound 420 00:26:10.210 --> 00:26:14.540 reliance on others for all basic bodily and social needs. 421 00:26:14.570 --> 00:26:20.600 There can be grace in receiving at this stage of life. 422 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:26.050 Secondly, perfecting community will necessarily include remembrance. 423 00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:28.780 When we have forgotten who we are and 424 00:26:28.810 --> 00:26:33.260 whose we are, we are profoundly reliant on our community to remember. 425 00:26:33.290 --> 00:26:34.980 For us. 426 00:26:35.010 --> 00:26:37.720 This begins with God and the subtitle for 427 00:26:37.750 --> 00:26:41.330 Swinton's book on dementia is Living in the Memories of God. 428 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:44.020 Once again, Swinton writes to suggest that 429 00:26:44.050 --> 00:26:48.700 God remembers persons with advanced dementia is not a palliative avoidance of 430 00:26:48.730 --> 00:26:51.260 the real truth that they have lost their identity. 431 00:26:51.290 --> 00:26:55.810 Neither is it an abandonment of these people by God in the present. 432 00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:57.260 Quite the opposite. 433 00:26:57.290 --> 00:27:02.940 It is a firm statement that God is with them, God is for them and that God is 434 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:08.380 acting with them and for them in the present as they move towards God's future. 435 00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:11.020 In a similar vein, Rosalie Hudson writes 436 00:27:11.050 --> 00:27:16.290 when the Spirit AIDS our remembrance, we are truly remembered. 437 00:27:16.320 --> 00:27:19.090 This signifies profound hope for those who 438 00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:29.220 are demented, who may now in Christ become remented reminded, remembred. 439 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:35.940 Think about that remembred part membered in the community again, right? 440 00:27:35.970 --> 00:27:41.960 This is a form of holy grace that can dynamically shape someone with dementia. 441 00:27:42.600 --> 00:27:44.700 I have a little bit on process thought 442 00:27:44.730 --> 00:27:48.000 here, but I'm going to I'm going to skip that. 443 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.120 We must also rely on the community to 444 00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:52.980 remember for the one who cannot remember anymore. 445 00:27:53.010 --> 00:27:56.660 And strangely enough, this maybe not even strange. 446 00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:58.620 This remembering isn't necessarily verbal, 447 00:27:58.650 --> 00:28:01.810 but it comes through bodily presence and through connectedness. 448 00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:04.180 When I'm with you and continue to relate 449 00:28:04.210 --> 00:28:09.220 to you as father, as teacher, as colleague, rather than the one who does 450 00:28:09.250 --> 00:28:14.500 not know who they are, I'm remembering and living what they have forgotten. 451 00:28:14.520 --> 00:28:16.280 Corporate memory of this type should come 452 00:28:16.310 --> 00:28:20.660 naturally to Christians after all the central sacrament and rituals. 453 00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:24.980 Precisely this experience of corporate memory, right? 454 00:28:25.010 --> 00:28:27.700 This is my body that is for you. 455 00:28:27.730 --> 00:28:32.330 Do this in remembrance of me. 456 00:28:32.360 --> 00:28:35.050 This cup is the new covenant in my blood. 457 00:28:35.080 --> 00:28:40.050 Do this as often as you drink in remembrance of me. 458 00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:41.720 Passover for our Jewish brothers and 459 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.500 sisters is likewise a communal remembrance of God's liberation of his people from 460 00:28:45.530 --> 00:28:48.940 Egypt already well practiced and gathering together. 461 00:28:48.970 --> 00:28:54.260 To practice remembrance, the community is called to share in the 462 00:28:54.290 --> 00:28:58.620 collective remembrance of what God has done in each other's lives, 463 00:28:58.650 --> 00:29:03.380 to tell the stories of shared experience and continue to practice the rituals like 464 00:29:03.410 --> 00:29:06.180 communion that provide a shared common experience. 465 00:29:06.210 --> 00:29:11.700 Collective memory is an essential aspect of this life together, right? 466 00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:16.380 I'm suggesting that that shared remembrance together can actually confer 467 00:29:16.410 --> 00:29:23.050 grace, can extend the symbol of perfection to reception. 468 00:29:23.080 --> 00:29:25.420 As I'm sure many of you know, dementia 469 00:29:25.450 --> 00:29:29.090 patients can show remarkable acidity at surprising moments. 470 00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:31.570 Here is the story of one of those moments. 471 00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:33.330 My parents are transplants in their 472 00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:38.380 community and as such, joined a church outside of their familiar denomination, 473 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.090 which their denomination didn't have a church in their town. 474 00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:44.840 And while they have developed profound friendships in this church, it is safe to 475 00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:47.570 say they remain on the fringes of the central community. 476 00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:50.840 And while we have asked numerous times for the church to come and share communion 477 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:53.140 with my dad, the elders have actually only come twice. 478 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.140 And he's been there for like it's really sad. 479 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.240 He's been there like four years and they've only come twice in that time to 480 00:29:58.270 --> 00:30:02.260 share communion with him, which I'm extremely disappointed about. 481 00:30:02.290 --> 00:30:07.220 But my dad, when you're with him, when you talk to him, if he's having a good day, 482 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:10.980 he'll respond, but almost always it's mumbling or it's the wrong words. 483 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:12.180 Like, he'll be trying to say something, 484 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.420 but he doesn't remember the right words anymore, so it'll be all confused. 485 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:16.290 And I wasn't there. 486 00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:19.330 I wish I was there this day and my mum told me about it. 487 00:30:19.360 --> 00:30:21.800 But when they were sharing together the 488 00:30:21.830 --> 00:30:25.660 holy meal, they also shared a time of communal prayer. 489 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.500 And when the person leading the prayer paused at the end of communion and said, 490 00:30:29.530 --> 00:30:34.420 let us pray, it was to everybody's shock of the room, we started crying. 491 00:30:34.450 --> 00:30:37.660 My dad was the one who started to pray. 492 00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:40.380 It was the shared ritual, the shared moment. 493 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.520 Right. And this is a time where he hadn't said 494 00:30:42.550 --> 00:30:47.780 coherent words for such a long time and was able to actually lead the prayer. 495 00:30:47.810 --> 00:30:49.560 Right? 496 00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:51.220 Yeah. 497 00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:56.940 It was a moment of profound grace and that it was connected to communion. 498 00:30:56.970 --> 00:30:58.260 That's not incidental. 499 00:30:58.290 --> 00:30:59.860 That's key. 500 00:30:59.890 --> 00:31:01.480 Right. 501 00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:08.700 Grace was manifest in my father's community. 502 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:10.800 My father's holiness in this moment was in 503 00:31:10.830 --> 00:31:18.220 receiving love and care that even allowed him a participatory element. 504 00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:23.240 So in this case, the relational moment spurred the receptivity to grace. 505 00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:25.620 My hope is, however, that even when that 506 00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:29.700 receptivity is not immediately evident, that God ministers through his spirit to 507 00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:35.200 those such as my dad in such a way that entire sanctification is still possible. 508 00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.160 My mum visits my dad every day and 509 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:40.980 surrounds him as best she can in a community of loving grace. 510 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.810 Wesley's famous comment on the social 511 00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:46.810 nature of holiness seems to imply that holiness happens in community. 512 00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:51.180 What I'm suggesting is that in special circumstances, like dementia, it in fact 513 00:31:51.210 --> 00:31:56.330 is the holiness of the community that confers holiness on the individual. 514 00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:58.810 And as I thought more and more about this, I'm not even sure that it's so special. 515 00:31:58.840 --> 00:32:00.140 I'm not sure that isn't just how it's 516 00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:03.980 always supposed to work, that it's always that relatedness. 517 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.330 It's always that relatedness. 518 00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:07.570 That's what Wesley was trying to point us towards. 519 00:32:07.600 --> 00:32:11.900 And the holiness of the individual consists in receiving this grace even if 520 00:32:11.930 --> 00:32:16.570 they do not know it, insofar as his openness continues, 521 00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:19.980 recognizing that often it will not appear so. 522 00:32:20.010 --> 00:32:21.800 Entire sanctification for those of. 523 00:32:21.830 --> 00:32:24.180 The dementia is a real possibility. 524 00:32:24.210 --> 00:32:25.260 It's not a guarantee. 525 00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:27.800 I'm not trying to say that everybody has this or anything like that. 526 00:32:27.830 --> 00:32:30.570 I mean, dementia can really it can be horrible, right? 527 00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:34.900 And it can expose those deepest elements of yourself that you've hid. 528 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.140 People with dementia can become incredibly violent. 529 00:32:37.170 --> 00:32:38.660 It can cut you open. 530 00:32:38.690 --> 00:32:40.860 But what I want to maintain is that it's 531 00:32:40.890 --> 00:32:49.440 still a possibility in these terms for this kind of perfecting love. 532 00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:50.320 There you go.